STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Let's get an assessment of an explosion at an Iranian seaport. Photos show shipping containers crushed like cans in a cloud of black smoke. State media say this blast killed at least 40 people and injured more. People trying to figure this out include Trita Parsi, who is executive vice president at the Quincy Institute, which in its own words favors military restraint and diplomatic engagement. He focuses on Iran. Welcome back, sir.
TRITA PARSI: Thank you so much for having me.
INSKEEP: What sources are you consulting and what do they tell you?
PARSI: Well, I've been talking to folks inside of Iran as well as following news there, and the picture remains divided. It's not entirely clear exactly what happened and whether this was an accident or whether it was an act of sabotage. Now, of course, you had several explosions with a certain distance between them. That seems to lend itself to be better explained by an act of sabotage rather than an accident. But again, at this point, we still don't know exactly what happened.
INSKEEP: Yeah. I guess from official sources so far through state media, we've mainly heard what they say did not happen more than what did. They've said that this was not related to refineries, fuel tanks or oil pipelines, according to the national oil company. They've said this had nothing to do with Iran's defense sector. It did seem to have something to do with, quote, "hazardous goods," but we don't know more than that. Does this make you think at all about Iran's infrastructure, though? Last year, Iran's president was in a helicopter that crashed and killed him, turned out to be an accident. Could we be seeing further signs of infrastructure that's decaying in Iran?
PARSI: Certainly, and I don't think that's been a mystery at all. Given more than 40 years of sanctions on the country, it's been quite clear that the infrastructure is in very poor shape. Iran has one of the highest rates of airline crashes as well. So that in itself is clear. What's added to the picture, of course, is that this is happening in the background of very sensitive nuclear talks between the United States and Iran. In fact, this explosion happened just as the Iranian foreign minister and Witkoff were meeting not far away from there in the country of Oman.
INSKEEP: You've been an advocate of U.S. engagement with Iran over the years and a supporter of the nuclear deal that the United States made and President Trump pulled out of years ago. Trump clearly hasn't been a fan in the same way of engagement, but here the Trump administration is talking directly with Iran. What do you make of that action?
PARSI: Well, I think he's come to the conclusion that at the end of the day, something needs to be done to make sure that there isn't an Iranian nuclear weapon, and something needs to be done in order to make sure that there isn't war between the United States and Iran. And negotiations and a verification-based deal is ultimately the best guarantee that exists to make sure that both of those very negative outcomes are avoided.
INSKEEP: When you study the statements on the Iranian side, do you detect any real willingness for a deal on any terms the United States could accept?
PARSI: The willingness for a deal on the Iranian side, I would say, is the strongest I've ever seen, including when the Iranians did agree to a deal with Obama in 2015. There is an upside with Trump that the Iranians see that I don't think they saw with Biden, for instance, which is that they know that the willingness from the U.S. side to actually offer much more and much more sustained sanctions relief is far greater with Trump. So there's a clear willingness there.
And at the same time, Trump has insisted that his only red line is nuclear weapons, which then creates a common denominator between the two sides since the Iranians say that they don't want a nuclear weapon. What complicates it is if the United States were to adopt the Israeli position, which is that there's a complete dismantlement of the program, zero enrichment. That's where we know that there will be a tremendous amount of differences and probably no negotiations at all.
INSKEEP: In a few seconds, why do you think it is the Trump administration would be in a position to offer greater sanctions relief than Biden was?
PARSI: Because Trump is willing to put primary sanctions on the table, which are the sanctions that are targeting American companies. The Iranian nuclear deal from 2015 only lifted the sanctions that were prohibiting non-American companies from going into the Iranian market.
INSKEEP: Got it. Trita, thanks so much for your insights. Really appreciate it.
PARSI: Thank you for having me.
INSKEEP: That's Trita Parsi of the Quincy Institute. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
