MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
So we've talked about these twists and turns in policy. Now let's ask about what may be the politics behind these course changes. Alex Conant is a Republican political strategist and founding partner of Firehouse Strategies. Previously, he was communications director for former Senator now Secretary of State Marco Rubio's 2016 presidential campaign. Good morning, Alex.
ALEX CONANT: Good morning. Good to be with you.
MARTIN: So President Trump made it clear that these tariffs are or were a big priority for him. Now he's saying tariffs on Chinese imports could come down, not to zero, though. But through all this, you know, investors, American business owners, consumers have all been expressing alarm about how this is affecting them. Is this what President Trump is reacting to, and why?
CONANT: I think he's reacting to a couple of things, and I actually think it's pretty simple. Whenever the president is going to ask the American people to make great sacrifice, as he is with the tariffs - you know, Americans are hearing about potential shortages at grocery stores and department stores this fall, higher prices. If Americans are going to do that, they have to have a clear understanding of why. And the reasons for the tariffs that we've heard from the White House are very varied. It's - we've heard it's for deficit reduction. We've heard it to bring manufacturing jobs back. We've heard it to put leverage on other countries to make great trade deals. All these things cannot be true at the same time. So I think there's confusion as to why Americans are being asked to make these sorts of sacrifices.
Couple that with the pummeling in the stock market that we've seen and the rise in bonds and then political fallout with - amongst Republicans. If you look at poll numbers, the tariffs are less popular amongst Republicans than many of the president's other policies, and you've seen a lot of concern from Republican members of Congress. This is not sustainable. And I think the Treasury secretary conceded that earlier this week when he said that the current level of tariffs on China is not sustainable.
MARTIN: So too many different explanations, doesn't necessarily make sense to the average American, and the White House thinks that he has an advantage on economic policy, and he can't afford to lose that. About - is that about it?
CONANT: Yeah, that's right. And we've seen his poll numbers start to dip on the economy. Throughout his political career, his standing on the economy has been his bedrock. If that - if we see that begin to erode, he's in real political damage - real political danger.
MARTIN: OK. So in contrast, let's talk about immigration. The administration has faced a lot of judicial pushback. Two judges have extended temporary blocks in the administration's use of the Alien Enemies Act to expedite mass deportations. The Supreme Court has told the administration to facilitate the return of this man mistakenly reported to El Salvador. But unlike the tariff issue, the administration seems to be doubling down. What do you think explains the difference here?
CONANT: I think the administration feels like they're on much stronger ground politically here. You know, the stock market doesn't care as much about immigration. His poll numbers amongst Republicans, even independents, on immigration are much stronger than they are on tariffs. So this is clearly the issue that they want to be talking about. Understand that they have some real legal issues on this, and they may end up losing in court. And I think if they do lose in court, the public, including Republicans in the latest poll numbers, will want them to respect those court orders. But I think it's a fight that the administration welcomes at this time because immigration has always been a winning issue for Trump.
MARTIN: Does the administration want these actions to go to court so even if they lose, they can say they went to the mat?
CONANT: I think that they really want to test the president's powers in court and see what they can get away with. I mean, I think that they hope to expand what he's able to do through executive actions on immigration. And even if they don't win all the fights, if they win some, I think they'll take that win.
MARTIN: Is there a point at which this becomes toxic, though? I mean, there's some new polling data that shows that - you know, widespread and mostly bipartisan sentiment, but the White House should obey court orders. Is there...
CONANT: Yeah.
MARTIN: ...A tipping point here where it just...
CONANT: Yeah.
MARTIN: ...Just doing the most starts to backfire?
CONANT: Well, I think if the courts, especially the Supreme Court, rules that the president can't do something, he really does need to abide by that or face serious political backlash from Republicans, including Republicans in Congress.
MARTIN: The last issue I wanted to get to - the president's fight with Harvard, among other, you know, elite universities, but, you know, mainly Harvard right now.
CONANT: Yeah.
MARTIN: The university's suing the government for freezing this funding. Do these attacks on higher educations make for good - higher education institutions make for good politics?
CONANT: I think there's a lot of unease or unhappiness with higher education in America. And so I think the president is directionally right in trying to pick fights, trying to reform higher education. I think the executive order he did yesterday targeting the accreditation system is a step in the right direction and something that Americans probably would support.
But I do think that there's a lot of unease, including amongst Republicans, again, with the federal government trying to put private institutions into some sort of federal receivership, dictating how private institutions should act, what they should teach. Because look, we won't always have a Republican president in the White House, and I don't think we want Democrats doing the same thing in the future.
MARTIN: That's Alex Conant. He's a GOP strategist with Firehouse Strategies. Alex, thanks so much.
CONANT: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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