SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
College and university leaders are under enormous pressure right now to comply with federal executive orders and policy changes or risk losing federal funding. Dozens of schools are currently under investigation for failing to follow the Trump administration's guidance on diversity and inclusion. Others are accused of alleged antisemitism on campus. The Supreme Court yesterday upheld the administration's decision to freeze millions of dollars in DEI-related grants. NPR's Elissa Nadworny has been talking to some of those who lead universities. She joins us now. Elissa, thanks for being with us.
ELISSA NADWORNY, BYLINE: Thanks for having me, Scott.
SIMON: What have you been hearing from these people?
NADWORNY: Well, nearly everyone I've talked to acknowledged just how difficult this moment is when it feels like the federal government is at odds with higher education. I mean, Vice President JD Vance has even called universities the enemy. Here's a sampling of what I heard about what it's like to be in this job right now.
TED CARTER: I served 38 years in the Navy. I flew in 125 under fire combat missions. People ask me all the time do I miss flying. And I say, no, the job that I'm in right now is as dynamic as it can be without actually being fired at.
MARY DANA HINTON: I'm trying to be a calmly beating heart in a moment of swirling chaos.
ANDREW MARTIN: We're in a moment with great uncertainty. This is uncharted waters for us.
NADWORNY: That was Ted Carter, the president of The Ohio State University, Mary Dana Hinton at Hollins University in Virginia and Andrew Martin, the chancellor of Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri. And a lot of the leaders describe feeling under attack. One president told me the current climate feels like a gladiator match where colleges are being sent into the pit for entertainment. And it has meant that university administrators are traveling to Washington to meet with congressional leaders and the Education Department, basically trying to strengthen their relationship with people in power and to communicate that universities are essential for the economy and the nation.
SIMON: Elissa, let's talk about what happens when a college loses millions in federal grants. That's happened at Columbia, Johns Hopkins and others. And we note yesterday the Supreme Court upheld those actions when it involved DEI-related funding. What's the effect?
NADWORNY: Well, universities get money from the federal government for lots of different things. Much of the money that's been frozen is for research in the sciences - grants from the National Institutes of Health, USAID. This goes to professors and Ph.D. students studying Alzheimer's, diabetes, new drugs. For example, Ohio State has lost about 4 million in federal grants in the last few weeks. And for schools, this can mean layoffs or program cuts. But honestly, even smaller colleges that don't have big grants are worried because the government also gives work-study grants and Pell grants for low-income students. Here's Suzanne Rivera, the president of Macalester College in Minnesota.
SUZANNE RIVERA: Even though small liberal arts colleges don't have hundreds of millions of federal research dollars at risk, we do have financial aid dollars at risk, and if there were a loss of support, the focus would be how it would affect students on financial aid.
SIMON: Elissa, the issue has also been raised, obviously about academic freedom and the ability of the university to remain independent. And for that matter, even protect students 'cause we've obviously seen graduate students arrested. What are the concerns there?
NADWORNY: Well, I talked about this with Michael Roth. He's the president of Wesleyan University in Connecticut. He says his students are worried that the university won't be able to protect them from the government, and that's created this climate of fear. In one of his seminar classes, Roth is teaching about scapegoating and Freud's discussion of how aggression works in societies. And he says it's not hard to draw parallels to what's happening today and to reflect on his job.
MICHAEL ROTH: What I realize now is how important it is for us to protect that space of freedom in educational institutions because that's how people learn when they feel free enough to try things, to fail, to experiment. And so protecting these spaces of freedom, where you don't have to agree with the leader, I think, is an urgent task these days.
SIMON: Of course, we should note it's not just colleges who might feel under pressure. This week, the U.S. Education Department sent a letter warning K-12 schools, get rid of DEI programs or lose federal funds that help low-income students.
NADWORNY: That's right, Scott. It's the administration's latest move to make public schools comply with President Trump's interpretation of civil rights laws. The letter to state leaders across the country said in part, quote, "the use of diversity, equity, and inclusion programs to advantage one's race over another is impermissible." And what's at stake is Title I money. That's one of the biggest grants the Ed Department oversees. Just to give you a sense, this school year, the federal government set aside $18 billion. That money went to 90% of school districts around the country.
SIMON: What do school leaders have to do to comply?
NADWORNY: Well, in the next 10 days, they're going to have to send a letter saying they're following civil rights law, essentially getting rid of all DEI initiatives. So we will soon see how the administration intends to interpret those responses and act on the threats of pulling funding.
SIMON: NPR's Elissa Nadworny, thanks so much.
NADWORNY: Thank you.
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