SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
If you're a certain age, and you hear this music...
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "STAYIN' ALIVE")
BEE GEES: (Singing) Whether you're a brother or whether you're a mother, you're stayin' alive, stayin' alive.
DETROW: ...I bet you can instantly conjure up an image of John Travolta strutting down the street with a can of paint. "Stayin' Alive" was his song, but I'm sure if you saw the movie, you have probably hummed it to yourself as you have walked down a sidewalk at least once. Or maybe, fast-forward a few decades, you've got a big task coming up, maybe some public speaking, a pitch meeting, one shot, as it were, one opportunity. You could say your palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy. So like Eminem's character in "8 Mile," you pump yourself up with some "Lose Yourself."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "LOSE YOURSELF")
EMINEM: (Rapping) You better lose yourself in the music, the moment. You own it. You better never let it go. You only get one shot. Do not miss your chance...
DETROW: I could go on. But the point is, music is a powerful part of movies. And some songs and some movies forge an instant link and stick together in your head for decades to come. That is what we're going to get into today with two guests from NPR Music - Stephen Thompson and Sidney Madden. Hey there.
STEPHEN THOMPSON, BYLINE: Hello.
SIDNEY MADDEN, BYLINE: Hey, Scott.
DETROW: How do we feel about those first two references?
THOMPSON: (Laughter).
MADDEN: I mean, Eminem did open a whole restaurant called Mom's Spaghetti in Detroit off the strength of that song, so clearly it had cultural staying power, and it became a staple from the movie.
THOMPSON: I have heard that song approximately - I'm just guessing here - 4 to 6 billion times. And I'm...
MADDEN: (Laughter) Put on another (ph) billion.
THOMPSON: And I am still not tired of it. I will still turn it up every time it comes on the radio. So that is the mark of a great movie song.
DETROW: I am excited to have this conversation, and I just want to start. I want to rattle off three examples of, to me, like, top level songs and movies in sync. And then I would love for you to - like, I just want to get your views and you guys do the same. So let me start with this - few different things. I want to take you on a highway down a danger zone, zooming jets, spiked volleyballs, leather jackets. I feel like you have to start with Kenny Loggins, "Highway To A Danger Zone" (ph) and "Top Gun." To me, that's, like, up there.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "DANGER ZONE")
KENNY LOGGINS: (Singing) Highway to the danger zone...
DETROW: You've got "Fight The Power" by Public Enemy in "Do The Right Thing."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "FIGHT THE POWER")
PUBLIC ENEMY: (Rapping) Fight the power. Fight the power.
DETROW: It is the movie's anthem, played over and over again.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "DO THE RIGHT THING")
GIANCARLO ESPOSITO: (As Buggin' Out) Yo, that's the only tape you got?
BILL NUNN: (As Radio Raheem) You don't like Public Enemy, man? This [expletive] dope.
ESPOSITO: (As Buggin' Out) I'm down. But you don't be playing nothing else.
NUNN: (As Radio Raheem) I don't like nothing else.
DETROW: And then I have to also reference - every night in my dreams, I see you, I feel you. That is how I know you go on.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MY HEART WILL GO ON")
CELINE DION: (Singing) That is how I know you go on.
DETROW: Can we top those three - "Titanic," "Do The Right Thing," "Top Gun"?
THOMPSON: I mean, it is hard to top those three, Scott. Those are all excellent choices. I mean, we could just sit here, and this entire segment could us just be naming movie songs we love, right?
DETROW: Yeah.
THOMPSON: Like, we could talk about "Mrs. Robinson" from "The Graduate" and how the way that song captures a certain rush that that movie brings about.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MRS. ROBINSON")
SIMON AND GARFUNKEL: (Singing) And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson. Jesus loves you more than you will know - whoa, whoa, whoa.
THOMPSON: We could just rattle off '80s movies. You already mentioned "Danger Zone." We could talk a little "Footloose" to keep it with Loggins. We could talk about "Ghostbusters."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GHOSTBUSTERS")
RAY PARKER JR: (Singing) If there's something strange in your neighborhood, who you gonna call? Ghostbusters.
THOMPSON: I do love a certain kind of '80s movie theme song that really could only accompany the movie in question, where the song is...
DETROW: Yeah.
THOMPSON: ...Actually calling out the name of the movie and reciting plot points from the movie. I think that is a very kind of sweet era of, you know, movies and songs converging.
MADDEN: And I love how, Stephen, you pinpointed - in the '80s and '90s specifically, there were so many songs that narrated...
THOMPSON: Yeah.
MADDEN: ...The movie for you or even had the title of the movie in it. I think of "Exhale" by Whitney Houston...
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "EXHALE (SHOOP SHOOP)")
WHITNEY HOUSTON: (Singing) There comes point when, when we exhale, yeah, yeah.
MADDEN: ...From "Waiting To Exhale," which almost didn't even happen. She was so against recording songs for the movie. She really wanted to get into her actress bag for that. But then finally, she was convinced to record that. And lucky for us, she was. For me, "You Got A Friend In Me" by Randy Newman...
DETROW: Oh, man.
THOMPSON: Absolutely.
MADDEN: ...Will forever - forever - be the top of the top.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "YOU'VE GOT A FRIEND IN ME")
RANDY NEWMAN: (Singing) You've got a friend in me. You've got a friend in me.
MADDEN: Back in '95, it's so wild that Newman, who already had such an illustrious career, had never scored an animated movie before, let alone a Pixar movie. And, of course, he's gone on to compose all the other soundtracks of the "Toy Story" movies since then.
THOMPSON: Well, he went on to basically rewrite that song over and over and over. Like, every Pixar movie for a while...
MADDEN: 'Cause you know what? If the formula is...
THOMPSON: ...Would be like, you're my best friend.
(LAUGHTER)
MADDEN: If the formula is not broken, OK?
DETROW: What's the problem? What's the problem with that?
THOMPSON: (Laughter).
MADDEN: The loafing tuba that comes in to accompany him, this beautiful, universal message that can be picked up by anybody of - a kid of any age. But I also love songs that are so good that they actually transcend the movie.
THOMPSON: Yeah.
MADDEN: One song, specifically, is Aaliyah's "Are You That Somebody" from the "Dr. Dolittle" Soundtrack, 1998.
THOMPSON: It does transcend that film.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ARE YOU THAT SOMEBODY")
AALIYAH: (Singing) If I, if I let you know, you can't tell nobody. I'm talking nobody.
MADDEN: No shade to the directors, Eddie Murphy, Kyla Pratt, anyone involved, but there was no business having a song this sexy in a movie about talking animals.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ARE YOU THAT SOMEBODY")
AALIYAH: (Singing) Sometimes I'm goody-goody. Right now I'm naughty-naughty.
MADDEN: This song definitely did them a favor. It also moved incredibly well on the Billboard charts. It peaked at No. 21 that - the year it was released, and it earned Aaliyah her first Grammy nomination in the category of best female R&B and vocal performance. And again, from a movie about talking animals, y'all.
THOMPSON: (Laughter).
DETROW: I feel like in talking about different examples, we talked about an interesting distinction here. There are songs made for the movie, which, like you said, kind of peaked with the "Ghostbusters." era, like, you know? But then also so many different examples of movies taking a song that's been around for a long time and grafting it onto that movie, and you can't hear that song the same way. I'm thinking of, like, "Unchained Melody" with "Ghost."
THOMPSON: Oh, for sure.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "GHOST")
THE RIGHTEOUS BROTHERS: (Singing) Hunger for your touch.
PATRICK SWAYZE: (As Sam Wheat) What are you doing?
DEMI MOORE: (As Molly Jensen) I couldn't sleep.
DETROW: Hard to hear that song and not think about Patrick Swayze doing the very sexual pottery molding (laughter).
THOMPSON: Pottery wheel, yeah.
DETROW: Yeah. But, like, those are two different - like, two different clear lanes here.
THOMPSON: Yeah, we're talking about original songs in films versus needle drops. The phrase needle drop is just referring to when you're essentially hitting play on a preexisting song in a movie but allowing it to kind of be woven into the fabric of what you're seeing. And every once in a while, you see a movie with, like, a perfectly chosen needle drop, and you think there should be an Oscar's category for music supervision. But a great needle drop can completely reshape our relationship with the song.
DETROW: Let me ask both of you - I came in hot with, like, three or four top examples. Like, which to each of you is, like, the platonic ideal of a movie and a song working together, bringing out the best in both of them, that you feel like this is the best example of these two things together?
MADDEN: Well, it's so funny because you referenced the '80s and the '90s and the classics. And I do think sometimes it takes a bit of time and distance away to identify that this song is going to be linked to the film forever. But there are definitely exceptions with that. One exception is "Redbone" by Childish Gambino, which plays at the beginning of Jordan Peele's "Get Out."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "REDBONE")
CHILDISH GAMBINO: (Singing) But stay woke. They be creepin'.
MADDEN: Talk about musical synergy. So that song came out before the film did, but it beautifully narrates and foreshadows about the film's plot right there. It's smooth. It's ominous. It's bluesy. And it's telling you to stay vigilant, stay woke because someone might be creeping up on you. Somebody might want to, I don't know - spoiler alert - take your body from you. And the entire premise of the movie is just laid out for you in the beginning montage in this really innocuous way.
DETROW: But in not too much of an over-the-top way, right? You're not like...
MADDEN: Exactly.
DETROW: ...Oh, this is exactly what this movie is about - if you're coming in cold. Stephen, do you want to wind us down with one more favorite?
THOMPSON: I'm really torn. If I'm talking about the platonic ideal, I would need to pick either something from "Purple Rain"...
DETROW: Yeah.
THOMPSON: ...Whether it's "When Doves Cry" or "Purple Rain" itself, or I would talk about the "Theme From Shaft" by Isaac Hayes, which is - again, we're talking about not only, like, reciting character beats, laying out exactly who the character is and what he's all about in a way...
DETROW: (Laughter) In a very strange way (ph).
MADDEN: Exactly (ph) - embodying everything, yeah.
THOMPSON: ...In a deeply straightforward way, but also with one of the greatest instrumental, like, backing tracks behind it you can possibly imagine. Those horns are so iconic and so amazing. And that song is funny and weird and could only be from the film "Shaft." So I...
DETROW: I'm going to see this movie about Shaft. What do I need to know about this gentleman?
THOMPSON: Yeah, tell me. Tell me what - tell me a little bit more about this Shaft.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "THEME FROM SHAFT")
ISAAC HAYES: (Singing) Who is the man that would risk his neck for his brother man?
UNIDENTIFIED SINGERS: (Singing) Shaft.
HAYES: Can you dig it?
THOMPSON: That, to me, I mean, if we're going to name platonic ideals, let's go with that one.
DETROW: You have me sold. That is NPR Music's Stephen Thompson and Sidney Madden. Thank you to both of you.
THOMPSON: Thank you.
MADDEN: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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