ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
There was a time when federal government work was shorthand for a safe and predictable job - not anymore. Today, federal government employees face drama, uncertainty and conflict, coming largely from the Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE. President Trump and DOGE leader Elon Musk are trying to shrink the size and scope of the federal workforce. The department carrying out this mission is a decade old and had hundreds of employees, previously known as U.S. Digital Service. On Tuesday, 21 of those employees resigned in protest. In an anonymous letter, they said, quote, "we will not use our skills as technologists to compromise core government systems, jeopardize Americans' sensitive data or dismantle critical public services."
Well, our next guest is one of those people, and because she's worried about retaliation for speaking out, we've agreed to use only her first and middle initials - DK. She told me everything changed the day after the inauguration.
DK: On January 21, we were all required to attend 15-minute interviews with people who only identified themselves as DOGE and their first names. At that point, it was unclear if these were government employees or not. And after those interviews, we got the response of, no comment, on whether our projects should change. And so it was a time of extreme uncertainty, but we tried to stay focused on the projects and - I know for me - try and just continue the work for as long as I could.
SHAPIRO: So this resignation letter says people who arrived with DOGE fired technical experts, mishandled sensitive data and broke critical systems. Can you give us an example of an instance you saw that happen?
DK: Yeah. There are quite a few. One of the big ones, and there has been information that has come out that is incorrect, is in regards to the Social Security Administration - the access to that data. That data contains all the information on any person who has ever been eligible for Social Security. It doesn't mean that it's somebody who is actively receiving Social Security, and perhaps it could be somebody who passed away quite a long time ago. That data, not only is it being utilized incorrectly, but the access to it and the feeding it into other systems makes all of that data and all of the American people's data very insecure.
SHAPIRO: How would you respond to people who say, well, these are disaffected Democrats who are heading for the exits?
DK: I would say that is a gross mischaracterization of the United States Digital Service as a whole. While we were founded during the Obama administration, United States Digital Service still operated during the first Trump administration and were - was able to do good work during that time. We cover the gambit as far as our political leanings. And part of being an EOP employee and the oath that we swear to the Constitution when we start is to operate in a nonpartisan, nonpolitical way. We are here to serve the American people. It is not a political issue.
SHAPIRO: You could have chosen to stay and try to work within the system. What was the tipping point that made you decide leaving was the best choice?
DK: The first real tipping point came when many of my colleagues were fired for seemingly no reason, when they had been performing exceptionally at their jobs and were dedicated to serving this country and to help improve this country's governmental systems. The second tipping point came when it became clear that the former United States Digital Service would be asked to become more involved with DOGE's activities. And those activities are the antithesis of what United States Digital Service was founded upon and what the mission has been - to do the most good for the most amount of people, to go where the work is and to hire and empower great people, which means supporting our agency partners and uplifting the federal servants. I realized that my actions would - if I stayed, would just further legitimize DOGE and potentially cross extreme ethical and legal lines.
SHAPIRO: Cross ethical and legal lines how?
DK: Some of the activities that DOGE has currently been focused on are gaining access to government systems that house the American people's data. And with that, it is unclear whether they are upholding privacy and security standards that are regularly practiced throughout the government before the new administration came in. There's a high risk of the American people's data being exposed or being utilized for nefarious means. And it also creates the opportunity for potential foreign actors to come in and get access to that data as well. That is completely across the line both legally and ethically, and something I realized I could no longer do good from the inside and that I must leave.
SHAPIRO: DK was, until earlier this week, an employee at the Department of Government Efficiency. She, along with 20 of her colleagues, left DOGE in protest. Thank you for speaking with us.
DK: Thank you.
SHAPIRO: And on the platform X, Elon Musk suggested the staffers would have been fired had they not resigned. White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt responded to the mass resignation in a statement saying, quote, "don't let the door kick you on the way out." Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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