SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
Do you ever cringe when somebody talks about the movies they love?
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "ANNIE HALL")
RUSSELL HORTON: (As Man In Theatre Line) Granted, "La Strada" was a great film, great in its use of negative imagery more than anything else. But that simple cohesive core...
WOODY ALLEN: (As Alvy Singer) I can't stand this guy. I'm going to have a stroke.
DIANE KEATON: (As Annie Hall) Well, stop listening to him.
HORTON: (As Man In Theatre Line) You know, it must need to have had its leading...
DETROW: Maybe it's on a date - that scene is from "Annie Hall" - or the first time you talk movies with a new friend or a colleague, and they bring up one that just raises some alarm bells. We are talking about those red flag movies today. Along with me, we have ALL THINGS CONSIDERED producer Mia Venkat. Hey, Mia.
MIA VENKAT, BYLINE: Hey, Scott.
DETROW: And we've got NPR culture reporter Isabella Gomez Sarmiento. Hey, Isabella.
ISABELLA GOMEZ SARMIENTO, BYLINE: Hello.
DETROW: Let's start with you. What is at the top of your list? What is a type of movie that if somebody says that's their favorite movie, you're thinking, like, I don't know?
SARMIENTO: Well, funny that you ask because it's actually the movie that we just heard from, "Annie Hall." I think that's very high on my list.
DETROW: (Laughter).
SARMIENTO: I think the problem with "Annie Hall," which is, you know, the Woody Allen movie where he plays a comedian in this relationship with a singer...
DETROW: Yeah.
SARMIENTO: ...I think it falls into this bucket of movies that take themselves a little too seriously or are trying too hard to be quirky.
DETROW: Yeah.
SARMIENTO: Like, I think another good example of this is, like, a lot of movies made by Wes Anderson or, like, the Zooey Deschanel, Joseph Gordon-Levitt romcom, "(500) Days of Summer."
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "(500) DAYS OF SUMMER")
ZOOEY DESCHANEL: (As Summer) I love The Smiths.
JOSEPH GORDON-LEVITT: (As Tom) Sorry?
DESCHANEL: (As Summer) I said I love The Smiths. You have good taste in music.
GORDON-LEVITT: (As Tom) You like The Smiths?
SARMIENTO: And it's not always necessarily the movies themselves, but the kind of people they attract or like the culture built around them is very, like mid-2010s Tumblr. And like, I'm guilty of having loved them as a teenager, but now it's a little like, OK, let's grow up.
DETROW: I'm cringing as you say this because, like, I absolutely had posters of Woody Allen movie in my college dorm, thinking that said - was quite the artistic statement. That was the signal that I was, like, a really cool guy.
VENKAT: (Laughter).
DETROW: And, like, now I'm...
SARMIENTO: Don't worry because you're certainly not the only one. It happens a lot, which is why it's so high on my list.
DETROW: OK. OK, I'm going to move forward and reassess my life in my earlier years.
(LAUGHTER)
DETROW: Mia, what about you?
VENKAT: It's kind of similar for this - like, the same reasons of the kind of people this kind of movie attracts. But for me, specifically, it's, like, movies that people choose clearly because they think that it makes them seem smarter for choosing it...
DETROW: OK.
VENKAT: ...And smarter than you, I feel. Like, an example for me, which is my biggest red flag movie is "Inception," the Christopher Nolan movie.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "INCEPTION")
LEONARDO DICAPRIO: (As Cobb) I specialize in a very specific type of security - subconscious security.
CILLIAN MURPHY: (As Robert Fischer) Are you talking about dreams?
VENKAT: And I watched it because everyone was watching it, and I, like, like to be a part of the conversation. I'll be honest - didn't care for it. It's so purposefully confusing, but I feel like the kind of person that it attracts is like, if I even hint at the fact that I'm not the biggest fan of it, I'm now stuck in a 45-minute conversation about why I'm wrong and they're right. And I get it.
DETROW: Let me follow up here because if we're writing off all Christopher Nolan movies...
VENKAT: No.
DETROW: ...We are writing off many, many dudes out there. Are you talking like, what if you love "Dark Knight"? What if you love "Dunkirk"?
VENKAT: No, I'm not...
SARMIENTO: (Laughter).
DETROW: Like, is that - that's it?
VENKAT: It's not all Nolan movies. Actually, there's one that I'm very fond of.
DETROW: Not all Nolan fans.
VENKAT: Not all Nolan fans, not all Nolan movies.
SARMIENTO: Hashtag.
VENKAT: Like, OK, a good example of, like, a plot twist movie from Nolan that I love is "The Prestige." I love that movie. It's one of my top - probably top three for me. There's drama. There's actual magic.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE PRESTIGE")
CHRISTIAN BALE: (As Alfred Borden) A real magician tries to invent something new, something that other magicians will scratch their heads over.
MICHAEL CAINE: (As Cutter) I suppose you have such a trick.
BALE: (As Alfred Borden) Actually, I do.
VENKAT: And yes, there's twists in "The Prestige," but it doesn't come off to me as a movie that's purposefully trying to make me - like, trying to dupe me.
DETROW: As the token man in this conversation, let me shift gears to, I feel like, two movies that when you Google this topic, much digital ink has been spilled as a red flag movie that a guy's really into - "Fight Club," of course, the Brad Pitt, Edward Norton movie about dudes beating each other up in a basement...
SARMIENTO: Sure.
DETROW: ...And "Wolf Of Wall Street," which it's, like, a four-hour movie that I think could be reduced to Matthew McConaughey hitting his chest and humming.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE WOLF OF WALL STREET")
MATTHEW MCCONAUGHEY: (As Mark Hanna, humming) Come on. (Humming).
DETROW: Either of those make your list of red flag movies?
SARMIENTO: I haven't seen "Fight Club" for all of the reasons we just talked about.
DETROW: What?
VENKAT: Yeah, same.
DETROW: You haven't seen "Fight Club"?
VENKAT: Same here - I mean, just - like, I've heard about it. I know about it. It kind of feels like your thing. Let me not encroach. And because of all the stereotypes of that movie, I just kind of feel like I get it without having to actually watch it.
SARMIENTO: Totally.
VENKAT: But I have seen "Wolf Of Wall Street," and I liked the movie. It's a good movie. But I think the red flag of "Wolf Of Wall Street" comes from, like, the reasoning behind why it's a top movie of yours. So it's like, OK, if your takeaway from that movie is that Jordan Belfort is the man, it's like, maybe we're not quite understanding that film in the same way. And Scott, you bring up that Matthew McConaughey scene.
DETROW: Does the mic pick up my chest thumping here?
VENKAT: Scott, no joke - when I was in high school, boys would sit around the lunch table in the cafeteria just thumping their chests a la Matthew McConaughey. And it was like, all right, you guys, I think we've lost the plot a little bit.
SARMIENTO: You didn't get what you were supposed to maybe from the movie.
DETROW: Let me put you both on the defensive. Have either of you had a moment where you are talking about a movie and you realize, oh, no, this is a red flag for the other person?
SARMIENTO: Oh, constantly. I'll be the first to admit I think a lot of my favorite movies are red flags for other people. They're kind of the flip side of the bro movie. Like, I love "Amelie," the 2001 French movie about a very introverted young woman who, like, starts doing nice random acts of kindness for people around her, and it pushes her outside of her shell. I think that's, like, a manic pixie dream girl movie for a lot of people. And I can see their eyes glaze over when I start talking about it. But, like, sue me for liking a little whimsy in my life, you know?
VENKAT: Mine, I can't believe I'm sharing after what I've learned about it. But I love "Les Mis," the movie version of the Broadway musical. Scott, hear me out. Hear me out.
DETROW: OK.
VENKAT: Hear me out. Hear me out.
DETROW: You love that Russell Crowe's singing?
VENKAT: I love that movie.
DETROW: Is that what it is? You're like, when Russell Crowe sings...
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "JAVERT'S SUICIDE")
RUSSELL CROWE: (As Javert, singing) Who this man? What sort of devil is he to have me caught in the trap and choose to let me go free?
VENKAT: And here's the problem, Scott. Every time I bring up "Les Mis," why is the first thing people want to talk about Russell Crowe?
DETROW: Because you can't get around it.
VENKAT: It's, like, a 3 1/2-hour long movie.
DETROW: Because you can't get around it.
VENKAT: There's other stuff. And I'm - OK, as a lifelong thespian, I watched it with my fellow theater kids in high school in the theater, essentially nonstop crying. I loved the movie. And then I found out in the last, like, couple of years through the internet that, like, it's kind of famously a bad example of a movie musical.
DETROW: Yes.
VENKAT: I just didn't know that, and I liked it. Like, I'm not pretentious about that movie. I loved it. And now I hate that I have to feel bad for liking it because I didn't realize it was so universally agreed on that it was not good.
SARMIENTO: Don't feel bad. You should own that. You love "Les Mis." You love Russell Crowe.
VENKAT: (Laughter) I love "Les Mis."
DETROW: How much of it is just, like, authenticity in the end? Like, if deep down, I just - I don't know. Like, I love "Annie Hall" - right? - but I'm not in your face about it. Like, is that OK? In the end, is it just about people being sincere or not or people respecting other people's tastes or not? Like, what in the end is the, like, I can move forward on this date or, like, listen, man, got to go?
VENKAT: Yeah, I think it's all the above. I think that one thing people need to understand is it's pretty obvious when you're not sincere about your take. Like, I feel like I can see right through it when you're liking something just because of how you think that I'm going to react to it. And so also, like respecting other people's tastes, so what if I love "Les Mis"? Let me just love "Les Mis."
SARMIENTO: Yeah, Like to be clear, I don't think it's a red flag if you don't like the same things as me. That's actually probably a green flag because you don't want to date yourself. But if you're picking a favorite movie because you're more concerned with what it says about you, whether it makes you very interesting or smart or different or whatever, then it's like, that's kind of boring. I'd rather you pick a movie that's completely out of left field, but you go to bat for it. Like, our producer, Marc, once gave me a beautiful speech about why he loves "Magic Mike 2."
DETROW: Wow.
VENKAT: (Laughter).
SARMIENTO: And you know what? That's way cooler than "Annie Hall." "Magic Mike 2" - "Citizen Kane" of our generation, according to Marc.
DETROW: That was NPR culture reporter Isabella Gomez Sarmiento, as well as ALL THINGS CONSIDERED producer Mia Venkat. Thanks to both of you.
SARMIENTO: Thank you.
VENKAT: Thanks, Scott.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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