SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
Rebels backed by Rwanda pushed deeper into the Democratic Republic of Congo this week. The M23 fighters have encircled the border city of Goma and have killed more than a dozen U.N. peacekeepers and sent hundreds of thousands of people fleeing. But aid workers say there is no safe place to run. The DRC's foreign minister is in Washington, D.C., where U.S. officials have condemned Rwanda for the advance of the rebels. Therese Kayikwamba Wagner is the Congolese minister of foreign affairs. She joins us now. Foreign Minister, thanks so much for being with us.
THERESE KAYIKWAMBA WAGNER: Thank you for having me.
SIMON: What's the humanitarian situation like where the fighting's going on right now?
WAGNER: The humanitarian situation in Goma and around Goma is dire and catastrophic. In the past days, during which the Rwanda Defence Forces - so the army of Rwanda - launched an assault against the city of Goma. They did so by knowingly cutting water supply lines, electricity, access routes, as well as shutting down the airport and all capacity to fly over Goma. So this has had a dramatic repercussion on an already extremely tense humanitarian situation. And it is also very difficult not just for the civilian population, but also for humanitarians to do their work accordingly, to provide assistance and also to operate health centers where wounded can be taken care of.
SIMON: Foreign Minister Wagner, what evidence is there, to your mind, that Rwanda sponsors these rebels?
WAGNER: The first evidence is the one that we have from our countrymen and countrywomen who are in Goma and who are telling us that Rwandan troops have marched in on our sovereign territory. The second evidence is the report of the United Nations group of experts that has already, a few weeks ago, established the presence - the increased presence of Rwandan troops in the DRC - over 4,000 troops, according to the U.N. There is only one voice claiming that Rwanda is not present, and that is Rwanda alone. The rest of the world knows that they are there. They are killing. They are looting. They are raping, and they are maiming.
SIMON: You are in Washington, D.C., and have spoken, I gather, to members of the administration. What do they say to you?
WAGNER: We are very pleased that despite the fact that there are a lot of pressing domestic issues - there is an ongoing transition in the United States with an incoming administration - we're very satisfied by the fact that the USA has remained consistent in its stance. I want to remind us that the USA were the first country in the Security Council to denounce the presence of Rwandan troops in the DRC. And we welcome the fact that they have remained as committed and as critical of this clear attempt to destabilize not only the DRC, but the entire region.
Of course, we welcome the condemnation. We welcome the fact that we are acting in a context of greater transparency, because that means greater accountability. But we continue to push for firm action. What we see and what we have seen for the past years is that Kigali and President Kagame have no respect for the words and for the threats of the international community. It is high time that we now move on to actions and to stop the spread of this orchestrated violence.
SIMON: As we speak, M23 - the rebel group - has threatened to march on Kinshasa, Congo's capital. What would that mean for the region? How concerned are you about this?
WAGNER: Well, it would mean that the region would have gone back 30 years in time, and this is the threat. Again, it is the threat to all investments that have been made in terms of improved governance, stability, regional integration. It would mean that we would fall back in the very, very dark times of armed groups backed by countries such as Rwanda, as is the case right now, that topple legitimate governments and that topple the rules-based order. It would mean that all of a sudden, despite the efforts that have been made and the immense human sacrifices, we would be back in a context where political decision-making and access to power is decided by the barrel of the gun.
SIMON: Therese Kayikwamba Wagner is the Congolese minister of foreign affairs, speaking from Washington, D.C. Thank you so much for being with us, Foreign Minister.
WAGNER: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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