SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST:
President Trump's pick to lead the intelligence community, Tulsi Gabbard, faced a barrage of questions at her confirmation hearing this morning. Lawmakers were concerned she might clash with the intelligence officers she hopes to oversee. NPR's Jenna McLaughlin was watching and is with us to tell us what she heard. Hi, Jenna.
JENNA MCLAUGHLIN, BYLINE: Hey, Sacha.
PFEIFFER: I want you to give us a little background of Tulsi Gabbard because she is a Republican who wasn't always a Republican, which makes her especially interesting. Tell us about her.
MCLAUGHLIN: That's correct, actually. She ran for president as a Democrat in 2020. She represented Hawaii in Congress for almost 10 years. She served in the Hawaii Army National Guard. She did a couple of tours overseas. Now she's a U.S. Army reservist. Now, Sacha, it's important to remember that Gabbard doesn't have a background in intelligence. That's kind of a concern, since she'd be in charge of 18 intelligence agencies and tens of billions of dollars. Her defense for that is that she's held a clearance for a long time - in the military and in Congress, on committees like the House Armed Services Committee - so she understands the importance of intelligence. Meanwhile, Gabbard's been really outspoken on her opinions on national security. Those range from criticizing the U.S. military intervening overseas, to what she sees as intelligence failures, like the invasion of Iraq or the investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 election. It's a theme where she's found common ground with President Trump and his allies.
PFEIFFER: So all that puts her at odds with the intelligence community and its work right off the bat. Are there other positions she's taken that might intensify that bad blood?
MCLAUGHLIN: Absolutely, and his name is Edward Snowden. One of the top questions senators had during the hearing was whether or not Gabbard thinks that the U.S. should drop all charges against Snowden, a position she previously took. He's the former NSA contractor who shared classified information about U.S. surveillance with journalists in 2013. Gabbard was very careful in her answers to those questions. Take a listen.
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TULSI GABBARD: Edward Snowden broke the law. I do not agree with or support with all of the information and intelligence that he released, nor the way in which he did it. The fact is he also, even as he broke the law, released information that exposed egregious, illegal...
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: I (ph)...
GABBARD: ...And unconstitutional programs.
MCLAUGHLIN: The lawmakers interrupted her answers to that question on several occasions when she refused to label him as a traitor. Gabbard also got a bit of flak for a bill she introduced in 2020 that would have gut a key intelligence gathering program - Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. But she reassured senators that she would protect those authorities going forward.
PFEIFFER: Since we're talking about foreign policy issues here, would you give us an overview of her other positions on U.S. foreign policy?
MCLAUGHLIN: Sure. One of the big ones to keep in mind is Syria. Gabbard met with then-Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in 2017 - a leader who is believed to be responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Syrian civilians. She's also contradicted the intelligence community's assessment that Assad used chemical weapons against his own citizens. During the hearing, Gabbard said she had no love for Assad or other dictators. She said her main focus is fighting terrorism. But, you know, she repeatedly defended her earlier positions, arguing there was competing evidence about chemical weapons at the time. Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona really pushed her on that, though. He basically got her to admit that she bought into arguments made by experts who had sketchy records, worrying ties to Russia. He dismantled the reasoning behind her skepticism, and she honestly didn't have much of a response for that.
PFEIFFER: On the Russia issue, has she said anything about Putin and Russia's war in Ukraine?
MCLAUGHLIN: Yeah. Gabbard has faced a lot of criticism for making excuses for Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Even so, when she was directly asked who was responsible, Gabbard was unequivocal.
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GABBARD: Putin started the war in Ukraine.
MCLAUGHLIN: But, you know, it'll probably take more than that to reassure the intelligence community. They've spent the last many years documenting Russia's threats to global security, from the brutal invasion of Ukraine to poisoning dissidents and launching hacking campaigns. She has an uphill battle in gaining trust from the people she wants to lead.
PFEIFFER: That's NPR's Jenna McLaughlin. Thanks, Jenna.
MCLAUGHLIN: Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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