STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
We do not know why two aircraft ended up at the very same point in the sky at the very same time over the Potomac River last night. We do know that it happened in a crowded airspace in the area of Washington, D.C., where there are three major commercial airports, as well as military bases, many military flights. One plane was an American Eagle jet. The other plane was a U.S. Army Black Hawk. Earlier today, we spoke with Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia, who said that congestion has been part of the debate about that airport in the surrounding area.
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TIM KAINE: This is an airport - as you know, Steve, it's on a pretty tiny footprint. And it was originally built with the thought that these runways could handle about 15 million passengers in and out a year. The number of passengers in and out of Reagan National is now well in excess of 20 million a year. And so those of us who represent the region have often tried to make the case that, listen; we've got a couple of other airports here. Let's spread the traffic out among the airports because this congestion issue has been a concern.
INSKEEP: Until that congestion is fixed, it's up to air traffic controllers - federal employees who work for the Federal Aviation Administration - to keep the planes apart and the helicopters apart, and our understanding is that they were in touch with both aircraft last evening.
Let's bring in Randy Babbitt, who has some insights about this. He is a former administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration and also a formal - former commercial airline pilot. Mr. Babbitt, welcome to the program.
RANDY BABBITT: Well, thank you. Good morning.
INSKEEP: Good morning, and thanks for joining us on a tragic day.
BABBITT: Absolutely.
INSKEEP: I understand you are familiar with the approach that the American Eagle flight was taking last night. What is that like?
BABBITT: Yes. It's, you know, a relatively straight-in approach if you're landing on 18. They did shift them over. Excuse me. They were landing - cleared to land on the north runway...
INSKEEP: Three three, I think is right. Yeah.
BABBITT: ...And then they moved them over to a crossing runway, probably to expedite departures or something. And that's, again, rather routine. It happens at these airports. Sometimes, you know, for air traffic and other reasons, they'll move you to another runway. And that's what was in progress.
INSKEEP: You just told me something that I - is a little bit new to me. It is your understanding, Mr. Babbitt, that they changed the runway. They were both roughly north-south runways, but one of them is at a bit of an angle. And I guess that means that the plane itself would change slightly exactly where it was over the Potomac on its way in. Is that right?
BABBITT: Well, what he would do - no, if you extend the center line of the runway out, he would have to move over. That aircraft would move over probably a quarter of a mile to the east to line up with the other runway, which is a heading...
INSKEEP: Right, yes.
BABBITT: ...Of 330 degrees. The runway they were originally going to land on was 360. So it's about a 30-degree difference of the direction of the runway.
INSKEEP: OK. Is that a question you would ask as to whether, perhaps, the helicopter thought this plane should be in a different place than it was because of this change?
BABBITT: Well, it - anything we do at this point, unfortunately, is speculation.
INSKEEP: Right.
BABBITT: But yes. There's another possibility. The helicopter, as I understand it and have listened to the tapes, indicated he did, in fact, see the other aircraft. But the question that comes to mind a lot of times is, did you see the aircraft? Did you see an aircraft, or was it the aircraft they were asking you about? And that'll come out. I mean, we're going to have just lots of speculation. But fortunately, we have good investigators at both the FAA and the NTSB that'll, you know, look into this thoroughly to see if - you know, they're going to determine what happened, and that's important.
INSKEEP: Mr. Babbitt, I got a pit in my stomach when you're talking because on the video that we have seen apparently of the explosion as the aircrafts strike, there's another airplane visible up in the sky there. So we don't know - when they said, yes, I see the plane, we don't know for sure if they saw the correct plane.
BABBITT: That's exactly what - yeah, I've seen the same video. And, you know, they typically will ask you in visual conditions, do you see the - in this case, the American Eagle jet? And if the pilot says, yes, I see them, well, then the controller has every right to believe that, OK, we're all good. And if the mistake was in - but we don't know. It's pure speculation, but...
INSKEEP: Yeah, yeah. And we should be clear about that.
BABBITT: ...It's certainly a possibility.
INSKEEP: We're gathering information rather than reaching conclusions here. It was night. We presume that would make the other airplane a little harder to identify, although we're also told there would've been night-vision goggles. This was a night mission by the helicopter. And we can't even say who's at fault at this point. But, Randy Babbitt, former administrator of the FAA and former commercial airline pilot, thanks for your insights. I really appreciate what you had to say this morning.
BABBITT: Well, you're very welcome. Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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