MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
Confirmation hearings are in full swing with a bunch of President-elect Trump's cabinet nominees appearing before the Senate this week - nominees including Pam Bondi, Trump's pick to run the Justice Department...
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CHRIS COONS: As attorney general, if confirmed, who would be your client?
PAM BONDI: My oath would be to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. The people of America would be my client.
KELLY: Also John Ratcliffe, who, if confirmed, will run the CIA...
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ANGUS KING: Would you ever change or remove content in an intelligence assessment for political reasons or at the behest of political leadership?
JOHN RATCLIFFE: No.
KELLY: ...And Florida Senator Marco Rubio, who Trump has chosen for secretary of state. Those last two - Rubio and Ratcliffe - will play key foreign policy rules under the 47th president, and that is the subject we are going to dig into now with two people who have played such roles in past administrations.
We begin with Victoria Coates, former deputy national security adviser to Donald Trump during his first administration. She's now vice president for national security and foreign policy at The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank. Welcome.
VICTORIA COATES: Good to be with you.
KELLY: First question - do you see a unifying philosophy across the Trump national security team? I'm asking 'cause there seems to be such a wide range in views on display. You can look at Tulsi Gabbard, who's up for director of national intelligence, who has criticized U.S. military action abroad, has been sympathetic to U.S. adversaries, including Vladimir Putin. On the other hand, you have Marco Rubio, who's been super hawkish on Russia, China and others.
COATES: No, I think you're absolutely accurate. There is a range of strong voices, which is what President Trump expects. And so he respects Tulsi Gabbard's position, for example, on surveillance, on asking hard questions of our intelligence community, challenging their assumptions - 'cause we've had some pretty catastrophic intelligence failures over the last couple of years, from Afghanistan to Ukraine to October 7 in Israel - so I think he wants that voice in the room. And he also strongly respects Senator Rubio, who has said in his confirmation hearing as well as other places that he has his views, but he follows the president's policy.
KELLY: How different might we expect Trump's foreign policy to look from President Biden's? I mean, there are areas of what appear to be potential great overlap - an aggressive posture towards China, for example, or unwavering military support toward Israel.
COATES: I think that China is probably the unifying factor, and so I do expect that will be the same. I think that we will see the Trump administration be somewhat more aggressive.
KELLY: What about Ukraine? How big a break do you anticipate there in terms of U.S. aid to Ukraine - how much and how long it may continue?
COATES: I think President Trump has signaled, through his meetings with President Zelenskyy both in New York and in Paris, that he is open to continuing some military aid to Ukraine but that his priority is going to be ending this war. And so that's why he appointed Keith Kellogg, who was a close colleague of mine during the first term, is very close to the president, speaks for him. I think it will be a very powerful negotiator to run that effort.
KELLY: An idea that we did not hear during this last four years under President Biden - Trump has toyed aloud with the idea of taking control of Greenland, of the Panama Canal. He has not ruled out that he might use military force to do that. How seriously do you take that proposal?
COATES: I take the president-elect's concerns about what we're seeing in terms of Chinese incursions, both on Greenland, where they are trying to establish a development toehold, and around on both sides of the Panama Canal - and I think the president-elect rightly has a big problem with that. And I think he is signaling to the government of Denmark and the government of Panama that this needs to end. You know, he is the kind of person who puts everything on the table and nothing on the table. So of course he's not going to rule anything out, but I think he is sending a very clear signal that these Chinese incursions in our hemisphere have to end.
KELLY: Last question - when Biden came to office, the kind of headline for his foreign policy was, America is back, his implication being, in his view, America had exited the global stage during the Trump years. What might be the headline for Trump's second term?
COATES: I think the headline for Trump's second term is peace through strength. He wants to get to peace deals. He will not do anything to get to a peace deal. However, he wants to get there through strength, and that American strength is back. And that's what, to my eye, has been lacking.
KELLY: Victoria Coates, thank you.
COATES: Thank you very much.
KELLY: Victoria Coates of the Heritage Foundation. She's former deputy national security adviser to Donald Trump.
We're going to put some of these same questions now to Leon Panetta, who served several Democratic administrations, most recently as CIA director and defense secretary for President Obama. Secretary, welcome back.
LEON PANETTA: Good to be with you.
KELLY: Do you see a unifying philosophy in the Trump national security team beyond loyalty to Trump himself, of the - any kind of philosophy that might shed light on where his foreign policy priorities will be in the second term?
PANETTA: Well, you know, it's a question that I'm not sure we have an answer to at this point. I think it can go in one of two directions.
KELLY: OK.
PANETTA: One is that it could be a repeat of the kind of chaotic approach to foreign policy that happened in the first term. Or it could be, if he really follows through on what he said during the campaign, that he really wants to promote peace through strength. Then I think it could be a much more effective approach to what is clearly a dangerous world.
KELLY: Are there specific things you will be looking at as you try to answer that question?
PANETTA: Yeah. I think, first of all, it - he does have to improve the strength of the country. Looking at various investments that can ensure that our defense is the strongest on the face of the Earth is very important because almost anything he does in foreign policy must reflect that strength, first and foremost, and that there is an effort to continue to support Ukraine in its fight so that they can ultimately try to negotiate some kind of settlement to that war. How he approaches that will tell us a lot.
KELLY: How seriously do you take the idea of taking over Greenland or the Panama Canal?
PANETTA: Well, I - you know, that's the kind of thing that tells me that he could get off on the wrong foot. With all of the danger points that are in the world, to then raise the issue of whether or not we ought to take over Greenland or the Panama Canal or Canada just seems to me to undermine his credibility because it's not going to happen.
KELLY: So what do you make of peace through strength - which, as we just heard, is what Victoria Coates thinks will be Trump's mantra going in for foreign policy - do you agree?
PANETTA: I hope he does embrace peace through strength. And more importantly, I hope he embraces Reagan's definition. The strength of America's allies are vital to the United States. So that combination of being involved, providing world leadership and building a strong alliance with our friends to try to help us confront this dangerous world - that's what Reagan would do, and I hope that's what Trump does.
KELLY: Leon Panetta, who served in many roles during his years in Washington, landing as secretary of defense under President Obama - Leon Panetta, thank you.
PANETTA: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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