SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
Mike Leigh's new film, "Hard Truths," can be tough stuff. Pansy Deacon is a middle-aged housewife living in London suburbs and always seems about to explode. She harangues her grown son, Moses, who's still living at home. She lashes out at her husband for waking her at 6 p.m. And she thinks a fox in their backyard is staring at her. Nothing pleases her. Everything is a problem. Here's a slice of her dinner table conversation.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "HARD TRUTHS")
MARIANNE JEAN-BAPTISTE: (As Pansy Deacon) You can't go in or out of a supermarket without being harassed by those grinning, cheerful charity workers begging you for money for their stupid causes. Why they got to skin their teeth like that? Cheerful, grinning people. Can't stand them.
SIMON: Pansy is played by Marianne Jean-Baptiste in what The New Yorker calls a performance for the ages. And Mike Leigh, the seven-time Oscar-nominated director, and Marianne Jean-Baptiste, nominated as best supporting actress for her work in the 1996 film "Secrets & Lies" join us from New York. Thank you so much for being with us.
MIKE LEIGH: It's great to be here.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Thank you.
SIMON: Ms. Jean-Baptiste, is Pansy suffering or just insufferable?
JEAN-BAPTISTE: I'd say a bit of both, actually. I mean, she's obviously in a lot of pain, but she is also insufferable.
SIMON: And, Mike Leigh, why put a character like this at the center of a film?
LEIGH: Well, why not? What's interesting is the huge number of people who've said, I know a Pansy. Oh, that's my mother. That's my aunty. That's my uncle. That's me, some people say. So that's as good a reason as any to make her the focus of the film. The film, I hope, is painful when it gets to it, but funny as well. I mean, a lot of what happens and a lot of what she comes out with is - though she's not aware of it, 'cause Pansy has no sense of humor at all - but it is hilarious.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "HARD TRUTHS")
JEAN-BAPTISTE: (As Pansy Deacon) Look at you. Fix your face. Sitting there like a ghost. You're dealing with the public, handling people's food.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) Leave the girl alone. She's only doing her job.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: (As Pansy Deacon) Who are you talking to?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) I'm talking to you?
JEAN-BAPTISTE: (As Pansy Deacon) Mind your business.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) It is my business. I'm running late. I got a new client.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: (As Pansy Deacon) Your gentleman client's not my problem.
SIMON: Is it all right to laugh at some of what Pansy says?
LEIGH: Of course. Here's the thing. Life is comic and tragic, but one in the same time. I think there are a lot of laughs in the early part of the film. And then there's a certain point in the movie where you actually stopped laughing. Layers are stripped away, if you like, and you then get down to the hard truths.
SIMON: Yeah. Of course, Mr. Leigh, you're known and even celebrated for getting actors together to improvise and act out and construct the film as it goes along. So let me ask your star, Marianne Jean-Baptiste, what's that process like?
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Exhilarating. You get to use all of your imagination, your observational skills. You work in a way that you're not normally required to work on any other project. So you just feel fulfilled. It's hard work, obviously, but it's rewarding work. You know, you get to research. Like if the character - for example, Michele Austin plays a hairdresser. She plays Pansy's sister in the film. She went off and studied hairdressing.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "HARD TRUTHS")
MICHELE AUSTIN: (As Chantelle) Show me where it's tight.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: (As Pansy Deacon) At the back. Look, it's all red.
AUSTIN: (As Chantelle) The scalps not red. It's flaky where you're scratching it.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: (As Pansy Deacon) Because it's too tight.
AUSTIN: (As Chantelle) You're drinking water?
JEAN-BAPTISTE: (As Pansy Deacon) Of course I'm drinking water. What's that got to do with it?
AUSTIN: (As Chantelle) Keep your skin hydrated.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: (As Pansy Deacon) I'm hydrated enough.
SIMON: Chantelle seems to be the only source of solace to her sister. What do they share that makes that possible?
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Well, I mean, they grew up together. And as part of our process, we do a lot of work building their history. So there's a built-in relationship, you know? It's not just arriving on set and meeting somebody and saying, oh, this is going to be your sister. We've sat there for weeks and weeks working out all the details and layers of this relationship.
SIMON: They love each other. That can't always be easy for Chantelle.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: No. It can't. But I think it's just the way that it is. We all have family members that we love but don't necessarily like, or that we find difficult or that we have to manage. And I just think that that's what you're seeing here in this film.
SIMON: Over the years, I've interviewed any number of other great British actors and actresses who find all the stuff about, oh, you Americans, you go through research and - you know, and psychology and try and find the one, true voice. Just show me the lines, and I'll say them. That's what acting is.
LEIGH: Well, a good script, an actor who's good at interpreting a script - words - is an established convention, which makes absolute sense for itself. But what we're doing, what I do is quite an alternative and organic thing. I like to work with actors whom I regard as creative artists in their own right, not just interpretive artists. And I'm as concerned as anybody - as any writer or anybody else - to arrive at a very precisely scripted and thoroughly motivated piece of work. But we arrive at that through an organic process, through the process of rehearsal and development and distilling and arriving at a precise end product. And for me, that's what it's all about. But it's simply an alternative approach to making work happen.
SIMON: And, Marianne Jean-Baptiste, you're living and working in Los Angeles now, I've read?
JEAN-BAPTISTE: That's correct. Yes. I have been there for a number of years.
SIMON: Notably played the chief of police of Detroit in "RoboCop" in 2014.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Oh, God. (Laughter) Yeah. I've played a lot of chief of polices, FBI agents. Yeah.
SIMON: Well I...
LEIGH: Can I just say how much I've enjoyed the bonus of watching Marianne doing those characters, you know, knowing that she's really excellent at it, but knowing about other stuff that she could be doing - could do, you know?
SIMON: Well, thank you. You raised the question. Are there enough roles around for someone of your vast talents?
JEAN-BAPTISTE: I hope so (laughter). I hope so. I mean, this kind of thing is quite rare - to get to play a character like Pansy Deacon. So, you know, I'm full for the minute.
SIMON: Mike Leigh, may I ask - you know, you've been honored with the Order of the British Empire. May I ask, is it difficult to find financing?
LEIGH: It is, and I have to say the so-called Order of the British Empire doesn't make any difference one way or the other.
SIMON: Well, I'm impressed.
LEIGH: Well, you know, you may be impressed, but you haven't got any money.
SIMON: Oh (laughter).
LEIGH: Yeah.
SIMON: Ouch.
LEIGH: No, no. I mean, your question is, is it hard to raise funds?
SIMON: Yeah.
LEIGH: The answer is, yes. And actually, it's got harder. It has absolutely got harder. I mean, I have been lucky for various reasons over the years, because the conditions for me making my films is that, you know, there isn't a script. We won't discuss casting, and the deal has to be that we will not be interfered with by anybody at any stage. It's tough, and it's got tougher for various reasons.
SIMON: I hope you two work together again. This film is so memorable.
LEIGH: Thank you.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Thank you.
SIMON: Any plans?
LEIGH: Well, we can't talk about that on the air. Let's face it.
(LAUGHTER)
SIMON: Mike Leigh and Marianne Jean-Baptiste, they are reunited in their new film, "Hard Truths," in theaters now. Thank you both so much for being with us.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Thank you.
LEIGH: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF JOHN SCOFIELD'S "A GO GO") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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