JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
One of the most polarizing figures in gymnastics, Bela Karolyi, died late last week. He, along with his wife, Marta, elevated the U.S. women's gymnastics team to its first team Olympic gold in 1996.
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BELA KAROLYI: You can do it. You can do it.
SUMMERS: That's Karolyi in the '96 Olympics, encouraging gymnast Kerri Strug after she was injured right before a key vault.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Come on.
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SUMMERS: Strug stuck the landing on one foot, sending Team USA to the top of the podium. The Karolyis went on to open a ranch in Texas where Olympic hopefuls train, and that's where former athletes have accused Karolyi of withholding food, verbal abuse and intense training despite serious injury. That ranch is also where some gymnasts say they were sexually abused by former team doctor Larry Nassar, who is currently serving a 175-year sentence for sexual abuse. Both Marta and Bela Karolyi have denied knowing that that abuse was taking place. We're joined now by New York Times reporter Juliet Macur. Thanks for joining us.
JULIET MACUR: Thank you for having me.
SUMMERS: I mean, Bela Karolyi was just this towering figure in the sport of gymnastics, who, as we've noted, has this very complicated legacy. But Juliet, you knew Bela Karolyi. What was he like?
MACUR: Bela was somebody who you could always count on to fill your notebook with interesting things. You know, you'd show up, and he'd yell your name with that big, bellowing voice. But he was always really charismatic and larger than life. I mean, I don't think I've ever met almost anybody in my long career of reporting who was that much of a character in sports.
SUMMERS: It's well known today that Karolyi's coaching tactics were harsh. He often encouraged women to train through injuries. They withheld foods, mandatory weigh-ins. And that resulted in some athletes developing eating disorders. There was also verbal abuse. How has the sport changed since Karolyi left it back in 2016?
MACUR: The sport has changed dramatically since he left and not just because he left, but because he left the sport just before Larry Nassar - was made public that he had abused gymnasts both on the national team, and as it turns out, hundreds of gymnasts and other athletes outside of the national team. And really, it was more hearing what Larry Nassar did and then hearing the toxic culture that went on at the Karolyi Ranch and many gyms around the country - because Bela and Marta were not the only coaches who had this Eastern block way of coaching that really had a domineering coaching style that scared gymnasts into silence.
So it sort of set the table for someone like Larry Nassar to come in and abuse gymnasts who were so scared of their coaches that they needed someone to talk to, needed someone to be nice to them, and that was Larry Nassar. He came in and was nice to the gymnasts, offered them food when they were at the Karolyi Ranch, snuck food in for them. It was really a way for these sexual predators to get away with things. And unfortunately, the way the Karolyis coached set the foundation for that.
SUMMERS: How is Karolyi being remembered after his death? And I wonder, as someone who's covered the sport and covered him for so long, how do you think about his legacy?
MACUR: You know, when I saw that he had passed away, it was - you know, I had a lot of mixed feelings. I mean, I think that in terms of his impact on the sport and its popularity in the U.S., he played a huge role in that because he was such a big, outgoing, charismatic figure that caused so many little girls to be interested in gymnastics, especially with Mary Lou Retton at the 1984 Olympics, which was such a big deal here in the country. So it's hard to really pinpoint exactly what he meant to the sport because it's so black and white. There was a good side of him, and then there was a really bad side of him that laid the foundation for this toxic culture that went on for decades and really led to the biggest sexual abuse scandal in the history of American sports, which was Dr. Larry Nassar abusing hundreds of girls and women.
SUMMERS: Juliet Macur with The New York Times, thank you so much.
MACUR: You're welcome.
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