MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
We're going to go back to the politics for a few more minutes. The race was called neck and neck in those closing days, so how did this tight race shift toward Trump? We're going to talk with Chris Borick about this. He's the founder and director of the Institute of Public Opinion at Muhlenberg College. That's in Allentown, Pennsylvania. He's on the line with us now from Nazareth, which is in Northampton County. Good morning.
CHRIS BORICK: Good morning, Michel.
MARTIN: So what was your big takeaway from the night?
BORICK: Oh, just the sweeping nature of Trump's victory. You look internally in places like Pennsylvania and his gains were very consistent across region, across demographics. It's hard to find really any clear bright spots for Harris in terms of outperforming Biden's numbers four years ago.
MARTIN: So when we spoke with you last month, you told us that the election outcome would be decided, quote, unquote, "in the margins." Is that still true?
BORICK: I believe so, Michel. If you look across the various demographics in the state - and, you know, we're just kind of piecing through the exit polling. But if you look in regions, you look at the various categories of voters in the state, you'll see that it is modest gains, but consistent gains across those various places and cohorts within the electorate in Pennsylvania. And that's, at the end of the day, certainly enough to claim victory.
MARTIN: OK. You're mainly focusing on Pennsylvania. That's where your work is focused. But do you think you can extrapolate that across other places, as well?
BORICK: Yes, absolutely...
MARTIN: So...
BORICK: ...If you're looking at the other swing states, the so-called blue wall in particular.
MARTIN: So the question is going to be, did the pollsters under-count or under-represent any particular groups of voters? You know, in the last - really since the rise of President Trump, we've been talking about whether polling still works, right? Is polling still serving us? Is it still serving us?
BORICK: Yeah, that's a great question, and one that I'm not sure we can fully answer this morning. I think if you look at the national averages in the polls at the various swing states, you're not going to see an enormous difference in the final outcomes in the presidential race. I think you'll see some more differences or larger differences in a number of those Senate races that were discussed, where polling seems to have undervalued Republican support. So, you know, as we've said in 2016 and 2020, there's going to be a lot of questions and reviews, to see exactly where things might have gone wrong.
MARTIN: So speaking of - just talking about Pennsylvania, given Trump's success in places like Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin, can those places still be called - still be considered a blue wall?
BORICK: I don't think so. Two out of three elections having those states not perform for Democrats questions what their role in American politics is, and especially Electoral College politics. It's - walls are supposed to, you know, block things from happening. For Democrats that simply hasn't been the case.
MARTIN: And does it seem as though there is a realignment? This is something that the once and now future president talked about in his victory speech. He said that there is a great realignment. Is that true?
BORICK: You know, we could debate, yes, from a political science perspective what makes a realignment. But I think there is substantial evidence that in the era of Trump, American politics have realigned. The electoral cohorts, the electoral coalitions are different. And so I think there's a case to be made that indeed, there has been a realignment.
MARTIN: And what does it look like? Is it - I mean, we've talked a lot about the college, noncollege divide, that - you know, college-educated voters, particularly, you know, in the suburbs, but also sort of urban areas, moving in the Democratic column, and less educated people moving to the Republican column. Union - even union members moving to the Republican column. Is that what we're talking about? Or is there something else going on here that we need to take a look at, as briefly as you can?
BORICK: I think that is the cornerstone, Michel. We see that educational divide now mark American political coalitions, with the Democrats certainly becoming a party of higher-educated people with college educations and the Republican Party, especially in presidential years, taking on the more working-class elements that we see in the results last night.
MARTIN: And that does include people who are so-called racial minorities. We seem to see that, too. Something to look at. That's Chris Borick, the director of the Muhlenberg College Institute of Public Opinion. Professor Borick, thanks so much for talking to us.
BORICK: My pleasure.
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