SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
Now to the U.S. presidential campaign.
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VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: Do you want a president who respects the will of the people, free and fair elections and the right of the people to make a decision about who are their leaders?
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DONALD TRUMP: You know, these used to take one day. Now they go on forever. And bad things happen. Lots of bad things happen. Where were those votes that I saw two days ago? Oh, well, we're painting that section, and we decided to move them, sir. Oh, you can't believe it.
SIMON: Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump on the campaign trail yesterday. NPR senior editor and correspondent Ron Elving joins us. Ron, thanks for being with us.
RON ELVING, BYLINE: Good to be with you, Scott.
SIMON: Those clips were from stops in Texas, and Texas, according to polls, is not what they call in play, but pretty much decided. What were both candidates doing there this late in the campaign?
ELVING: Well, it is the nation's second-most populous state after all. And some of us still think the popular vote ought to matter, Scott. But your question is the right one. Why Texas with just 10 days to go? Well, the popular vote only matters if you can win it in a given state. That's how you claim that state's votes in the Electoral College. And Texas will go for Trump, as you say, as it did in 2016 and 2020. But still, both candidates went there to highlight issues they are stressing in their closing arguments. That's immigration for Trump, abortion for Harris.
Texas has that long border with Mexico, the most of any state, but on the other side, it's also become ground zero for the controversy over restrictions on abortion rights. It also gave Trump a chance to sit down in person with the nation's No. 1 podcaster, Joe Rogan, an interview that went on three hours. For her part, Harris got to be on stage with the global superstar Beyonce, who gave what you might call a full-throated endorsement.
SIMON: Been a lot of talk this week about fascism and Donald Trump, sparked by reporting both in The New York Times and The Atlantic. How does fascism become a topic and concern in the U.S. presidential elections of 2024?
ELVING: Well, it was mostly this statement from top military leaders who were - been disturbed, appalled really, by Trump's willingness to use the domestic - use the military for domestic political purposes, including after he lost the 2020 election. So the lead figure this week was John Kelly, a retired Marine general who served longer as Trump's White House chief of staff than anyone else. Kelly says Trump fits the description of a fascist, an authoritarian leader who would use all the engines of government to suppress dissent and opposition. Kelly's has been out front with a magazine article on this, but other military leaders who served under Trump - top-level leaders - have come out saying similar things.
SIMON: And that argument, of course, has become part of Kamala Harris' closing presentation, and she very bluntly refers to Donald Trump as a threat to democracy. You mentioned she also spoke about reproductive rights yesterday in Texas. For his part, Trump contends that America is overrun by migrant crime. And he's also spending a lot of ad money talking about transgender rights. What themes are each campaign emphasizing as they close?
ELVING: They are both stressing issues they believe will motivate their voters' turnout. Trump knows his voters are worried about immigration and crime and willing to believe the two go hand in hand. He also knows many Americans don't like gender-neutral bathrooms or the reality that some people choose gender reassignment or the notion that this is somehow being forced on families. And yes, even that seems believable to some in Trump's target audience. These are perfect issues for scare tactics because average voters have so little information about them.
As for Harris, she wants everyone to see the contrast on reproductive rights and cast it as an issue of individual freedom. And she wants everyone to hear her commitment to democracy itself and the rule of law. Some may say protecting democracy is too abstract as a campaign theme for a closing argument, too far from people's everyday cares and concerns. But it's hard to think of something that ought to be more important in a presidential election.
SIMON: Ron, always good to talk to you, particularly in these times. Thanks so much. We'll speak with you next week, OK?
ELVING: Thank you, Scott.
SIMON: NPR's Ron Elving. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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