STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
We have an update on free society in the rocky terrain of Afghanistan. The ruling Taliban keep adding more restrictions, but have yet to close one democratic institution, a TV channel called TOLOnews.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (Non-English language spoken).
INSKEEP: We visited the news room in Kabul two years ago after the Taliban took power. The channel faced staff turnover as people fled to the West. Reporters and editors risked arrest, but continued doing their jobs. Toba Walizada covered the school closures for girls.
Has your reporting on the schools made the government unhappy?
TOBA WALIZADA: (Through interpreter) Oh, 100%.
INSKEEP: Since then, Taliban rules have only become more restrictive. So I was eager for an update when the news channel's founder visited Washington. Saad Mohseni has written a book called "Radio Free Afghanistan." I asked how much worse conditions are for media, and his answer surprised me.
SAAD MOHSENI: Nothing has changed.
INSKEEP: Nothing has changed.
MOHSENI: Those kids you listened to - they're still going in every single day, courageously covering stories that they shouldn't be technically, and speaking truth to power as much as they can under the circumstances. We just did an evaluation of our team in Kabul, just to assess their mental state, their motivation, and so forth. We have 450-plus employees. And what was extraordinary was that the women did exceptionally well. They were more positive - they're more resilient than their male colleagues.
INSKEEP: I was particularly interested to learn about the women. Just in the last few months, the rules have gotten far more restrictive, far more difficult for women to leave the home, far more difficult for women to speak in public. What, if anything, are your female journalists doing differently than a year or two ago?
MOHSENI: Well, actually, they're probably not doing things that differently to 2022. So these new laws were introduced in that, essentially silencing women and making them disappear from the public sphere. But in practice, we were summoned by the ministries of vice and virtue and information and culture and told please continue as you were before.
INSKEEP: Don't worry about it. Doesn't apply to you.
MOHSENI: Yes. So, for us, I mean, we're not taking this for granted. We understand that eventually things will catch up.
INSKEEP: I'm delighted to hear that people can still work, but why do you think they're not just cracking down immediately?
MOHSENI: Well, I think that because, by the way, everything I say, I end with F. Yeah, I don't take anything for granted, and I'm not particularly hopeful. I think it just boils down to the fact that it's not a monolithic movement, the Taliban, that there are individuals who are more pragmatic than others. The situation on the ground is a lot more nuanced. And I think partially free media is important to some individuals within the Taliban, that they're able to amplify their messages. Obviously, there's a tug of war like any other political organization in that people are competing for popularity or they have their own rivalries, and I think it's important that free press allows some of them to promote themselves? I mean, if I can be that blunt.
INSKEEP: And so they don't get too much in your way in reporting the news, even though they do get in your way?
MOHSENI: Yes.
INSKEEP: I have a big question for you about Afghan society, its attitudes, its beliefs, its strengths. What remains of the 20-some years of U.S. engagement, direct U.S. engagement in Afghanistan?
MOHSENI: You know, Afghanistan was transformed in September or October of 2021. I thought, that's it for us as a media organization, for the sort of progressive Afghans. So I sat down to write this book. I thought, well, I better, you know, write down what we did, which was extraordinary. And then as I wrote the book, I realized how much the country had changed. We have 40 million Afghans. Median age is still like 18 and a half.
INSKEEP: Meaning the majority of the country was born while the United States had a presence there.
MOHSENI: Exactly right. But these are the kids who went to school. These are the kids that grew up with media, with television. These are kids who were exposed to freedom of expression, exposed to music, exposed to the arts. The Afghan story has always been interesting, but the Afghan story from 2001 till 2021, even till today, is a very uplifting one, because as much as the government was corrupt and inept and predatory, the people of Afghanistan really changed in ways we could not imagine in those days.
INSKEEP: Saad Mohseni is the author of "Radio Free Afghanistan: A 20-Year Odyssey For An Independent Voice In Kabul." Thanks for coming by.
MOHSENI: Thank you, Steve. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
