STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
We try to make sense of secret information revealed on NPR. The information comes from a lawsuit against TikTok. state attorneys general accused the social media site in essence of getting kids addicted to the platform. Redacted material revealed last week by NPR and Kentucky Public Radio suggests that company executives knew about the app's potential risks for teenagers and did nothing. Linda Charmaraman is a senior research scientist at the Wellesley Centers for Women, and she is studying this. She's on the line. Good morning.
LINDA CHARMARAMAN: Good morning, everybody.
INSKEEP: What did you learn when you read these documents?
CHARMARAMAN: Well, we all intuitively know that when you get on certain social media platforms that it can be hard to pull yourself away, whether it's because you're avoiding doing something else or that the content can be entertaining. However, there isn't enough information from the redacted internal research from TikTok to conclude what sort of harms to young people that they knew about, except for the screen time that they have been reported on, and whether the 260 videos need to be watched in succession or if it's over a long period of time. The calculation...
INSKEEP: Oh, that's interesting.
CHARMARAMAN: Yeah.
INSKEEP: We should explain what you're saying.
CHARMARAMAN: Sure.
INSKEEP: There's a description in here of kids getting effectively addicted, which is a term we're going to discuss, addicted in 35 minutes, which can be a couple hundred videos given how short many of them are. That's what you're referring to.
CHARMARAMAN: Yes, the calculation that the attorney generals made, you know, as little as 35 minutes, uses the most extreme estimate of a TikTok video, being as short as 8 seconds in length, when the average TikTok video in 2024 is actually 42.7 seconds, which amounts to 3 hours or more of viewing time. But if you take the other extreme example of the longest types of TikTok videos - it could be as long as 15 minutes - and it would take more than 65 hours to become, quote-unquote, "addicted."
INSKEEP: Ah, so you're telling me that it's the number of videos that you see that makes this hazardous, and it could take you a while to get there. Nevertheless, we have this idea of people being addicted. And we're using that term, but is that the right term? Is this actually what happens to teenagers when they watch too much social media?
CHARMARAMAN: Well, it really depends on why they are on it in the first place and the kind of content that they're exposing themselves to. You know, technically, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, DSM-5, has not officially included addiction disorders - you know, the ones that we colloquially refer to as internet addictions or social media addictions, because it's really hard to figure out what's pathological and what's nonpathological, you know, being hooked on, you know, these platforms. So I would say that it's a slippery slope when people start using those terms.
INSKEEP: Oh, thank you for that. So it's a giant time suck, and people really can have trouble pulling themselves away in a way...
CHARMARAMAN: Yes.
INSKEEP: ...That makes them feel helpless. I mean, that's all true, right?
CHARMARAMAN: It is. It's more like a repetitive behavior that's kind of compulsive. Or sometimes it's fueled by anxiety and that kind of thing.
INSKEEP: Now, let me ask about safety features here. Some of the safety features in the documents are described as being PR rather than substantive. But TikTok in its response to NPR's reporting said we voluntarily launched safety features, parental controls, increased privacy for minors under 16, that sort of thing. Does this stuff work? Can you make it safer?
CHARMARAMAN: I would say that most companies, you know, want to make sure that - you know, they want repeat customers, right? But they also want to make the product, you know, safe so that there'll be some trust in the product, you know, from the public side. And so these types of measures to reduce time spent on the platform are still focused on screen time, in general, which is not the entire, you know, story. You know, it's about why are people on this site? Are they looking up lots of recipes because they're trying to get ready for an important event, you know, and that's why they're on it, you know, for over a couple hours, you know? Or are they on it because they can't take themselves away, and they're getting themselves away from their important, you know, life responsibilities, like sleeping enough and eating at meals and going to work, going to school, doing their homework. You know, so that's when it's more pathological, yes.
INSKEEP: Right, it's all about the context.
CHARMARAMAN: Yes.
INSKEEP: Linda Charmaraman of the Youth, Media & Wellbeing Research Lab at the Wellesley Centers for Women. Thanks so much for your insights.
CHARMARAMAN: Thank you so much for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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