A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Batman's nemesis has returned to theaters in "Joker: Folie A Deux." And this time, he's got a song in his heart.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "JOKER: FOLIE A DEUX")
JOAQUIN PHOENIX: (As Joker, singing) When you're smiling.
MARTÍNEZ: Lady Gaga plays the Joker's accomplice, Harley Quinn.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "JOKER: FOLIE A DEUX")
PHOENIX: (As Joker, singing) When you're smiling.
LADY GAGA: (As Harley Quinn) When I first saw Joker, for once in my life, I didn't feel so alone anymore.
PHOENIX: (As Joker, singing) When you're laughing.
MARTÍNEZ: Now, while they're breaking into song at Arkham Asylum, another Batman adversary is on HBO. The third episode of "The Penguin" airs on Sunday. NPR's Glen Weldon says those are just the latest in a string of Batman shows and movies without Batman himself, and I'm just glad someone else noticed. Glen's the host of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast. So, Glen, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that you also wrote a whole book on Batman. It's called "The Caped Crusade." So you know a little bit about all of this. And actually, I mean, I can think of a few examples of this Batman without Batman trend that's been going on a while.
GLEN WELDON, BYLINE: Oh, yeah. Just on TV alone, there was "Birds Of Prey," then there was "Gotham" and a show called "Titans" and "Batwoman" and "Gotham Knights." And somewhere in there, A - I'm not making this up - they made a whole entire show about Batman's butler. It was called "Pennyworth," and it was a real thing.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah.
WELDON: There have been Batman without Batman movies, too. There was "Suicide Squad" and "The Suicide Squad" and "Birds Of Prey," and of course, most famously, "Joker" with Joaquin Phoenix back in 2019. Now, he won an Oscar for that role. But I got to be honest, I kind of hated that movie. I think it told a very simple story about a man driven to murder by society or something. And it did that by biting the style of other much better, more layered movies like "The King Of Comedy" and "Taxi Driver."
MARTÍNEZ: All right, so the sequel - basically a musical, right? I mean, you've already seen it, so what'd you think?
WELDON: Not basically a musical.
MARTÍNEZ: (Laughter).
WELDON: And, you know, we critics don't get to bust out terms like joyless slog very often.
MARTÍNEZ: Oh.
WELDON: But hey, A, if the clown shoe fits, right? This is more of the same, except now that very one-note story is punctuated by lots and lots and lots and lots of musical numbers that are there ostensibly to contrast Joker's miserable existence in prison. But the musical numbers are deliberately staged, so they're just as dour as everything else. This is a movie that wants its audiences to suffer, and mission accomplished.
MARTÍNEZ: Since I am a stan for DC and Marvel, I am going to go see it anyways, regardless of what you say, Glen.
WELDON: Yeah.
MARTÍNEZ: All right, so the TV show "The Penguin" on HBO - more of a mob show. Oswald Cobb tries to get ahead in Gotham's criminal underworld. Did that one work better for you?
WELDON: Oh, so much better. This show has no business being as good as it is, as layered as it is, as thoughtful as it is, as emotional as it is. So like "The Sopranos," it's a psychological drama, basically, dressed up in mob drag. It really digs into the characters. It finds things to say about them. If you skip "The Penguin" because you think you know what it's going to be, you'd be missing out on one of the best shows of the year.
MARTÍNEZ: Mob drag. I mean, that sold it for me right there, Glen. You don't have to say anything more.
WELDON: (Laughter).
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE PENGUIN")
COLIN FARRELL: (As Oz Cobb) The world ain't set up for the honest man to succeed. That should be the American dream right there, but that ain't the way the world works. America's a hustle. (Laughter) Not that I'm complaining.
MARTÍNEZ: At this point, I can imagine someone thinking that, OK, you've exhausted all the storylines that Gotham City could possibly have to offer.
WELDON: Yeah.
MARTÍNEZ: But it really seems like "The Penguin" actually still has something to say.
WELDON: It does. And I think that's because Gotham City is an urban environment that is in a perpetual state of decay. But it's a very specific and swoony gothic, over-the-top theatrical kind of decay that turns out to be great for storytelling. But let me tell you something, A. At the end of the day, when you tell a Batman without Batman story, you don't have to show us Bruce Wayne's parents getting murdered again for the millionth time. So in that sense, bring them on.
MARTÍNEZ: That's Glen Weldon, host of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast. Glen, thanks a lot.
WELDON: Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF BONNIE TYLER SONG, "HOLDING OUT FOR A HERO") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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