MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
Baseball's all-time hit leader Pete Rose has died at the age of 83.
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UNIDENTIFIED COMMENTATOR: Two-one pitch from Show. Into left center.
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UNIDENTIFIED COMMENTATOR: There it is. Rose has eclipsed Cobb. That's number 4,192.
MARTIN: That's how Rose's record-breaking hit centered on Cincinnati's WLWT TV. That comes courtesy of Major League Baseball. Rose played in the Major Leagues for 24 seasons, mostly with his hometown Cincinnati Reds. Rose was known for his aggressive base running and his will to win. He also bet on baseball and lied about it. Because of that, the league permanently banned him from the game, leaving one of baseball's most iconic players with one of its most complicated legacies. Joining us to talk about all of this is Keith O'Brien, who published a book on Pete Rose called "Charlie Hustle." Good morning, Keith.
KEITH O BRIEN: Good morning, Michel.
MARTIN: So let's start with his legacy on the field. Tell us more about it.
O BRIEN: Well, first is that all-time hit record, 4,256 hits. It's a record that will most likely never fall. And yet the record and all his other stats aren't even why we cared about Pete Rose. We cared about Pete because of how he played. By the mid-1970s, he wasn't just a great ball player. He was considered a great American, someone who embodied the American dream.
MARTIN: Say more about that. Why do you say that?
O BRIEN: Well, really, it's about his nickname, Charlie Hustle. It's sort of the bedtime story that Americans like to tell themselves - if you work hard, if you try hard, if you hustle, you can do anything. That's the American story. It's also the Pete Rose story. By rights, we probably never should've even heard his name. He was never even the best player on his own youth baseball teams growing up in Cincinnati. But he makes the most of his opportunities, he does hustle and he becomes a star.
MARTIN: So what happened? I mean, how did he go from a star to crashing out of the game?
O BRIEN: Well, based on my reporting, Pete Rose was addicted to gambling. And he was well-known for it. Once, in 1978, Major League Baseball held a secret meeting with Rose to discuss his gambling, his bookies, his debts to bookies. But the real problem comes in 1989, four years after Rose sets that all-time hit record, when baseball learns that he has been betting on his own games. This is against the rules. Rose lies about it, and those lies prove more damaging than the sin itself.
MARTIN: You interviewed him several times for your book. Did he regret it?
O BRIEN: He did. It was, he said, his only regret. Pete spoke to me for hours about it, and I learned something important about Pete through those interviews. Pete succeeds as a player and fails as a man for the very same reasons. He played with fury, he refused to bend on the field, he believed in every circumstance that he would prevail. And these are the same qualities that will doom him in 1989. He should've been honest with baseball officials then, but he couldn't. He believed he could outwork the problem, hustle us all. And he thought to the bitter end that he would prevail, but he doesn't. And that's why I came to think about the Pete Rose story as a Greek tragedy, a Greek tragedy that just happens to play out in and around an American baseball field.
MARTIN: Yeah, I see your point here. Do you think he will be inducted into the baseball Hall of Fame now?
O BRIEN: For years, baseball fans, writers, have speculated that Rose would be reinstated and placed on the ballot after he died. I guess we'll find out now, Michel.
MARTIN: That is reporter Keith O'Brien. He's author of "Charlie Hustle." It's about Pete Rose, who died yesterday. Keith, thank you so much for these insights and this reporting.
O BRIEN: Thank you, Michel.
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