MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
Tonight's the night Senator JD Vance and Governor Tim Walz square off in the vice-presidential debate in a race about which one can say this - no matter which map you look at, no matter which way you try to slice and dice electoral votes, just about every plausible path to the White House runs through Pennsylvania, the swingiest of swing states, with a critical 19 electoral votes up for grabs. And I want to welcome Pennsylvania's Democratic governor, Josh Shapiro. Thanks so much for stopping by.
JOSH SHAPIRO: It's great to be with you. Thank you.
KELLY: I will remind people - you were very nearly on that debate stage tonight. You made the shortest of the short lists. What issues do you want to hear Tim Walz come out swinging on tonight?
SHAPIRO: Well, first off, I'm thrilled for Tim Walz to be on that stage. He's a great friend, and he's going to be a great vice president. And, I mean, you couldn't have a clearer contrast. Tim Walz is someone genuine and authentic. He's honest about who he is and what he stands for. And, you know, part of what I think JD Vance has been struggling with during his time as Donald Trump's running mate is he's not being honest with himself, and so he can't be honest with the American people. And so he comes across as a total phony-baloney every day...
KELLY: So authenticity is....
SHAPIRO: ...And I think it's...
KELLY: ...What you're looking for beyond...
SHAPIRO: ...Been a real struggle for him.
KELLY: ...Any individual policy or issue.
SHAPIRO: Absolutely. Look, the policies are going to be set by the people at the top of the ticket. I think what they want to know is the vice president is competent and capable - something Tim Walz certainly is - and that they understand the challenges the American people face, and they are there to be able to do the work to address it. Tim Walz has a history of doing that work, and JD Vance doesn't.
KELLY: Pennsylvania - the latest polls show it beyond tight - absolutely neck and neck. Interestingly, you can go back a month, two months - the polls showed it beyond tight, neck and neck. It hasn't budged. A Fox News poll out Friday shows it tied at 49% in Pennsylvania among likely voters. First, why? Why is it so close?
SHAPIRO: If you go back and look at the last two presidential elections in Pennsylvania - one was decided by 44,000 votes, and one was decided by 80,000 votes. That's a point or less in our large commonwealth, and so it's going to be close if past is prologue.
KELLY: Does it surprise you that a second assassination attempt on Donald Trump didn't shake things up - that the presidential debate didn't shake anything up?
SHAPIRO: Well, look, first off, thank God the former president is OK and wasn't harmed in Butler, Pa., or in, I guess, his golf course in Florida. It is not shocking to me that there has not been an event that's sort of shaken up the campaign because a lot of folks kind of generally know where they are in this and that there are very few people who are undecided.
I think about it maybe in a football term, right? You're in the red zone. In many ways, both teams are in the red zone, if you will. But getting those last couple yards in the red zone in Pennsylvania is really, really tough. And what matters is, are you showing up? Are you speaking in ways that show people you respect them and that you've got plans to deliver for them?
KELLY: Election security - are you confident we will have a free and fair election in Pennsylvania?
SHAPIRO: Yes - hard stop. And may I explain why I believe that?
KELLY: Please.
SHAPIRO: In 2020, I was the attorney general of Pennsylvania, and we faced many similar threats of what we're facing right now from Donald Trump - threats to make it harder for people to vote before the election, then threats to make it so certain votes weren't counted. In fact, Donald Trump and his allies took me to court 43 different times. He went 0 and 43. I went 43 and 0. And we had a free and fair, safe and secure election, and we learned a lot. I have taken those lessons that we've learned and, as governor, have implemented them through our election protection task force, which we created nearly a year ago now.
KELLY: Yeah.
SHAPIRO: I think we have the best team on the ground to make sure, most importantly, that the will of the people is respected. I obviously have my views on the election. I've expressed them here. I support Kamala Harris. But what I support more than any candidate is our democracy.
KELLY: Are you confident we will know who won Pennsylvania in a timely manner?
SHAPIRO: I am. There have been some changes made since 2020. And some changes...
KELLY: I'll just jump in and remind people 2020 came down to - it was November 3, Election Day. We didn't know who won. We didn't know the next day. We didn't know the next day. We had to wait until that Saturday...
SHAPIRO: Saturday.
KELLY: ...Morning.
SHAPIRO: Yep.
KELLY: And it came down to your state that pulled off the electoral votes that elected Joe Biden president.
SHAPIRO: That's right. And listen, while I wish the results would have come sooner, hats off to the Republican and Democratic clerks in Pennsylvania who did honorable work making sure we got an accurate count. That is the most important thing. The good news is we have the best team of lawyers who have been battle-tested. We went through this in 2020. We'll be ready to defeat any kind of frivolous lawsuit again in 2024 with the sole mission here of having not just a free and fair, safe and secure election, but one where we get an accurate count and the will of the people is respected, just like it was last time.
KELLY: Josh Shapiro is the Democratic governor of Pennsylvania. Thank you very much for stopping by.
SHAPIRO: Great to be with you. Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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