LEILA FADEL, HOST:
The Biden administration is publicly signaling support for a limited Israeli ground invasion of Lebanon to dismantle Hezbollah's, quote, "attack infrastructure," though the president says he doesn't want regional war.
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PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Can an all-out war in the Middle East be avoided? It has to be.
FADEL: But Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu may not be operating from the same page. Yesterday, he had a video message in English for the Iranian people, as Israel struck in Yemen and Syria.
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PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: When Iran is finally free - and that moment will come a lot sooner than people think - everything will be different.
FADEL: To talk about all this, we turn to Ryan Crocker. As a young diplomat, he lived through a different Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982 and an attack by Hezbollah members on a Marine barracks in 1983. He later served as U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon in the 1990s. Today, he is the Distinguished Chair in Diplomacy and Security at Rand and a nonresident senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Good morning, Ambassador.
RYAN CROCKER: Thank you for having me.
FADEL: You know, my first question, really, is you lived through a different Israeli invasion in 1982. Is history repeating itself right now?
CROCKER: Well, I certainly hope not. The 1982 invasion of Lebanon by Israel was the opening chapter in a very long and sad story that played out over the next 18 years...
FADEL: Yeah.
CROCKER: ...With a huge loss of life among Lebanese, and 1,100 IDF troopers killed by the time the IDF withdrew in 2000. That was followed, of course, by the 2006 war, which you covered.
FADEL: Yes.
CROCKER: And today, we're looking at an even massive - more massive conflict. So history would tell us that a ground invasion of Lebanon by Israel only leads to worse things for Lebanon and for Israel.
FADEL: And in that period that you just described in the '80s, that's when Hezbollah was born, following that invasion. I want to ask you if you would be doing anything different diplomatically right now.
CROCKER: Well, I think that what the United States needs to do is reiterate its call, as forcefully as it can, for an immediate cease-fire. There is a playbook, and one that you've seen as well - the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1701, passed in 2006, which calls for a cease-fire, an Israeli withdrawal, a Lebanese Army and a UNIFIL deployment and a disarmament of all militia elements. That would mean Hezbollah. We're not going to get that immediately, but a cease-fire is, I think, an essential first step because, again, there's a huge human cost here.
FADEL: Right. OK. But the Biden administration has repeatedly and publicly called for a cease-fire. And a lot has been written about the way Netanyahu - or the perception has been that this administration, at every turn, has been publicly gone against or humiliated when they've announced an agreement on cease-fire deals in Gaza, then Lebanon, and then the prime minister of Israel rejecting those terms publicly. So how do you get there?
CROCKER: Well, I am not privy to the conversations between the Israeli and U.S. governments.
FADEL: Right.
CROCKER: I'm sure they are intense. And I do note that Israel has said that this will be a limited ground operation with a limited number of troops, and one hopes for a limited duration. That could already reflect U.S. input. And I just think we've got to make very, very clear that we have to remind the Israelis of their own history, if you will.
FADEL: What happens if Iran gets involved here? And do you think that's possible?
CROCKER: That is the broader war that no one wants, and I think that it is avoidable. I don't think Iran wants it. I don't think Israel wants it, and certainly the United States does not. That's why I think a cease-fire call could lead to a temporary cessation, and that is - buying time is a good investment. That's all you can get.
FADEL: Former U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker, thank you for your time.
CROCKER: Thank you.
FADEL: You can find news updates and differing views on the conflict at npr.org/mideastupdates. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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