AILSA CHANG: Baseball legend Pete Rose has died. He was 83 years old. The Cincinnati native thrilled fans throughout his 24-year career with his gritty play and work ethic, and he went on to become Major League Baseball's all-time hits leader. But his legacy is a complicated one. In 1989, Rose received a lifetime ban from baseball after an investigation found that he bet on the sport as a player and as a manager. Keith O'Brien interviewed Rose for his book, "Charlie Hustle: The Rise And Fall Of Pete Rose." It published earlier this year, and he joins us again. Welcome back to the show.
KEITH O'BRIEN: Thanks for having me, Ailsa.
CHANG: Thanks for being with us. OK, I want to start with Rose's accomplishments on the baseball field. He played for more than 20 years, right? Like, what made him such a notable player, in your view?
O'BRIEN: Well, you know, he has all the statistics, of course - you know, 17 All-Star Games, three World Series titles, three batting titles, an MVP rookie of the year and, of course, he is the all-time hits leader in Major League Baseball - 4,256 hits...
CHANG: Oof.
O'BRIEN: ...A record that will most likely never fall. But the amazing thing about Pete Rose, really, is that it wasn't about the statistics. It wasn't about the numbers. We loved Pete Rose because of how he played the game. He played with a fury on the field - almost a certain violence about him - which, of course, is why he got the nickname Charlie Hustle. He was willing to do anything it took to win a baseball game.
And what makes it even more incredible, really, is that I truly believe we never should've heard the name Pete Rose. He is, I think, one of our most ordinary, extraordinary athletes in American history. He was never the best player on his youth baseball teams on the west side of Cincinnati as a boy. He was never the best player on his high-school teams in Cincinnati. He truly did, in a great many ways...
CHANG: Yeah.
O'BRIEN: ...Will himself to be good.
CHANG: Incredible. Well, as we mentioned, he was part of a gambling scandal. Can you just remind us what he was found to have done and the consequences that flowed out of that?
O'BRIEN: He was a notorious gambler, but the issue that got him in trouble was that he was betting on baseball and, indeed, betting on his own team, the Cincinnati Reds, in the mid and late 1980s. This is an issue that every baseball player knows is verboten. You cannot bet on your own games. And Rose - rumors of his gambling reached Major League Baseball's front offices in early 1989 and ultimately got him in the trouble that would get him banned from the game for the rest of his life.
CHANG: When you interviewed him for your book all those years later, did he express any regret or remorse for what he did?
O'BRIEN: Well, let me be clear. Pete Rose made a great many mistakes in his life on and off the field, and gambling was just one of them. But, of course, I did ask him that question - you know, what do you regret, looking back on your life? And specifically, he told me he regretted only one thing, and that was betting on baseball.
CHANG: Wow. Well, Pete Rose was never inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame because of that. And, in recent years, there has been a steady, if small, call to consider allowing him in. Where does that effort stand now?
O'BRIEN: For years, people have speculated that, once Rose died, perhaps he would be reinstated, and, if he were reinstated, then he could appear on the ballot at Cooperstown. I guess we'll find out now if that's true - if that speculation is going to lead to an actual change in the situation for Pete Rose. You know, for me, the legacy of Pete Rose is far more complicated and interesting than just the Hall of Fame, though, surely, we will be debating that in the days, months and years to come.
CHANG: Keith O'Brien. His book is called "Charlie Hustle: The Rise And Fall Of Pete Rose." Thank you so much, Keith.
O'BRIEN: Thank you, Ailsa. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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