JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
The state of Nebraska has five electoral votes for president, but there's a catch. Their election laws are written in such a way that those five votes can be split, and as a result, in a couple of recent elections, the Democratic nominee has picked up one electoral vote from the reliably red state. This year, the presidential election is likely to be close, meaning a single electoral vote could matter, and that reignited calls from Nebraska Republicans to change the system.
In a last-minute effort, state lawmakers tried to change the law so that Nebraska would award all five electoral votes to one candidate. But today the governor said he has no plans to call a special session to consider this change. And in his statement, he cited the position of one lawmaker, Republican State Senator Michael McDonnell. And Senator McDonnell is with us now. Welcome to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
MICHAEL MCDONNELL: Thanks for having me on the show.
SUMMERS: Let's just start off with the basics. If you could, just briefly tell us why you did not agree to change how the state of Nebraska allocates its Electoral College votes. And I should just point out, this was a change that was backed by your fellow Republicans.
MCDONNELL: I was elected in '16, and I said I was opposed to winner take all. I wanted to leave the system the way it was since 1991, where you have to come in and work for that electoral vote. Now, we've talked about this, again, since I was elected and started serving in '17, where, if you want to make a change, in my opinion, then do it midterm and have the people of Nebraska vote on it if they want to get rid of our current system and go to a winner take all.
Now, I think if you look over the years, you know, in 2016, President Trump won, and in 2020, President Biden won one and President Trump won four. I just think you have to look at that as a way of, I think, a great part of democracy, to say, no, come in and talk to us. Sometimes it'll be a Republican, sometimes it'll be a Democrat, but the idea that we're open to talking to people and voting and looking at the issues.
SUMMERS: This change would have only affected the electoral vote for the congressional district that includes Omaha and its suburbs. As you correctly point out, it's switched hands. Democrats have won this district in the recent past. To what degree is your decision here reflective of the constituency of the district that you represent?
MCDONNELL: So at this point, it's a fairness issue, as I talked earlier about the midterm. If the people want to put it on the ballot in the midterm and have the people of Nebraska vote on it and make a change, well, that's a two-year runway for anyone interested in running for president. They know the rules. But just to try to go through this process, and who knows? You know, here we are, 42 days to try to make a change. But it'd be like calling a timeout with two minutes left and say, well, I'd like to change the value of the field goal from three points to four points. And that's just not fair.
SUMMERS: This issue attracted attention from many high-profile politicians, many Republicans, including former President Trump. He has, since you announced your decision, expressed his disagreement with you on Truth Social. He said in part that this was a decision you made for no reason whatsoever. He called you just another grandstander. I'm curious for your response to that, but also, what has the reaction been like there in Nebraska?
MCDONNELL: You know, if you're pleasing everyone, you're lying to someone, and I've kept my word, you know, for eight years in the unicameral. And again, we're different that way. We have a one-house system and I'm proud of that. So we are different here. And when I say that, you know, I think we're doing it in a better way. I wish - all 435 congressional districts, I think they should follow us and Maine.
SUMMERS: You've said that this is about fairness, and I hear that. In this year's presidential election, both of the leading campaigns, they see scenarios in which a single electoral vote, like the one that you and I are discussing, could be decisive. To what degree was that in your mind? Did that weigh at all on your decision here, knowing the gravity that the candidates here see?
MCDONNELL: I think we have to make sure in any process that, again, it's fair, and everyone knows the rules. And regardless, and as we've talked about going back, President Obama was victorious and came in and worked hard and won one of the five. And then we go again back to President Trump, where he came in and won all five. And then you go President Biden, and he won one.
And again, we want people to come in here and work hard and listen to us, and we don't want to be a flyover state. But I think that's the country. And that's why I think the country, if they seriously would take a look at our process, I think it'd be better for our country if all 435 congressional districts did it this way. We can't do it and make changes, trying to - again, with very little time left, trying to influence it one way or the other. And if we're going to make any changes, then we should do it two years before, and the people of Nebraska should vote.
SUMMERS: We've been talking with Nebraska State Senator Michael McDonnell. Thank you so much for your time.
MCDONNELL: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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