MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
The arrest of the founder of Telegram by French authorities has spooked the far right here in the U.S. Telegram is an online platform. It has come to be the preferred place, among other things, for racial extremists to spread propaganda and communicate with each other. Well, NPR's domestic extremism correspondent Odette Yousef joins me now to share more. And, Odette, let me start here. Is there any sign that this arrest of the founder of telegram, that it was related directly to extremism on the platform?
ODETTE YOUSEF, BYLINE: No, Mary Louise, there's no evidence to support any of these claims. You know, French authorities say that they arrested Pavel Durov because of criminal activity on Telegram - things relating to child pornography and drug sales - and that the company had declined to cooperate with an investigation.
KELLY: Then what has got far-right groups here in the states spooked?
YOUSEF: Well, here's Heidi Beirich of the Global Project Against Hate and Extremism.
HEIDI BEIRICH: And so there was a general freak-out, basically, by white supremacists claiming that this was the deep state, that it's finally coming in to do, you know, a censorship regime, that this was a dictatorial move. But there was also a lot of anxiety.
YOUSEF: Anxiety over whether governments now would find out the identities of Telegram users, Mary Louise, or that this is an attempt to silence their speech online or concern that Telegram would even just go away. But, you know, all of that is conspiracy theories and appears to be divorced from the reasons we know for Durov's arrest.
KELLY: Step back and just explain how Telegram has become such a critical communication tool for extremists here in the U.S.
YOUSEF: Well, Telegram has been popular with extremists around the world, and that's because it's a relatively unmoderated social media platform. But here in the U.S., this really started after the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville back in 2017. So after that event, you know, mainstream platforms like Facebook and Twitter started enforcing their own policies more strictly against hate speech and extremist organizing, and that drove people to many other platforms that are still out there right now. Telegram really rose to the top because of how accessible it is on mobile devices. It offers encryption. It allows private communications, and it also allows extremists to spread propaganda through public channels.
KELLY: Well, and now with these questions being raised about Telegram, are you tracking any signs of far-right groups on Telegram moving somewhere else?
YOUSEF: It doesn't seem that that's something that's happening at this point. I think the interesting question, though, is if a migration to another platform were to begin, which one would it be? Here's what Jared Holt says. He's with the Institute for Strategic Dialogue.
JARED HOLT: I think the clearest place they could move now, oddly enough, is a platform that they originally went to Telegram to seek a type of alternative to, which would be Twitter, which is now calling itself X. And moderations against extremist ideologies has significantly decreased under Elon Musk's ownership.
KELLY: Reporting there from NPR's Odette Yousef. Thank you, Odette.
YOUSEF: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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