AILSA CHANG, HOST:
So often, telling the story of the Israel-Hamas War is reduced to a catalog of numbers.
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UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER #1: A mass barrage of 170 rockets into Israel...
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER #2: More than 100 people were killed.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER #3: Deadliest day that Gaza has seen.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER #4: More than 700 people killed.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER #5: One of the deadliest days from the Israeli military's side since October 7.
CHANG: But this war is obviously so much more than all of that. It is the daily life of the people living in the midst of the war that's been raging for 10 months, the sense of insecurity they feel. It's the humanitarian crisis that only gets worse in Gaza and the prospect of a wider regional conflict with Iran. Thursday, the U.S. and Arab mediators are launching new talks to try to finally secure a cease-fire. We wanted to take a few minutes to get a big-picture look at whether a cease-fire is possible and how ordinary people are coping after 10 months of war. To do that, we're joined now by NPR international correspondent Daniel Estrin. Hi, Daniel.
DANIEL ESTRIN, BYLINE: Hi, Ailsa.
CHANG: You know, we've heard President Biden say many times that he's confident a cease-fire is just around the corner, but cease-fire talks have stalled for months. What should we expect this time around?
ESTRIN: Well, this time around, U.S. and Arab mediators say it is urgent. They think it's a ticking clock here because they're hoping that a cease-fire in Gaza can dissuade Iran from its threat to attack Israel to retaliate for recent assassination. They want to prevent a wider regional war and - doing that through a Gaza cease-fire. So you have this dramatic moment with a military buildup as the U.S. has sent warships and combat jets to the region to fend off a possible Iranian attack.
And at the same time, we see this dramatic diplomatic push with senior Israeli officials headed to Qatar, the CIA chief expected there, too. And they're going to try to work out some of the unresolved issues of this framework of a cease-fire deal to try to get a hostage and prisoner exchange, the return of Palestinian civilians to North Gaza and, eventually, the end of the war. The mediators say that the issues are resolvable, but ultimately, it comes down to whether the leaders of Israel and Hamas want the end of the war now.
CHANG: Well, let's start with Israel. Let's talk about Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Does he actually want to end the war in Gaza, you think?
ESTRIN: Well, for a long time now, he has said he will not succumb to pressure to end the war, and he's standing up to his security chiefs here. All of them say now is the time to strike a deal with Hamas, to shift the focus to Iran and to Hezbollah. Also you have the far right in Netanyahu's government that wants to prolong the army campaign in Gaza, part of its ultranationalist ideology.
Netanyahu also may have his own personal interests in delaying a deal. A deal with Hamas could lead to new elections in Israel, which could lead to him losing power and even could lead to a national state inquiry into the October 7 attacks. And Netanyahu is likely to go down in history as being responsible for Israel's worst security failure in history. He wants to delay that as much as possible.
CHANG: Well, Daniel, when you're talking to just, you know, Israelis on the street, what do they want to see 10 months into this war?
ESTRIN: They want to see an end. I mean, they're exhausted. People are desperate, feeling like there's no end in sight. There's a lot of anxiety about what will happen with Hezbollah and with Iran. And many Israelis are still displaced from their homes near the Lebanon border because of a fear of an attack. And some of them say, actually, they prefer to see a war with Hezbollah. They think that's the best option so that they can go back home and feel secure. Israeli leaders have said, all along, they prefer a diplomatic deal with regards to Hezbollah.
So you see how many Israelis really are shifting their focus away from the Gaza War. And a recent poll actually found that a small majority - about 54% of Israelis polled - said they want to see a deal with Hamas to release all the hostages and to end the war permanently, not just temporarily.
CHANG: Well, let's look at Gaza because NPR producer Anas Baba is in Gaza. He's been documenting life there for the last 10 months of this war. What has Anas been telling you about what it's like to be in Gaza day after day after day right now?
ESTRIN: He recently met a family sheltering on the side of a road, and the family's experience, what they told him, tells you so much about what it is like in Gaza now. This is a family that's been displaced 15 times inside of Gaza since the war began because Israel has repeatedly urged civilians to leave areas ahead of military operations. They are sent to what Israel deems as safe zones. Sometimes, those safe zones then are hit in Israeli airstrikes. There have been a lot of Israeli strikes on schools in Gaza that have turned into shelters and many deadly strikes as well.
But the father of this family that our producer Anas Baba met said he survived a bombing. He saw people dying in front of his eyes. So he took out a loan to hire a driver to take his family to this roadside where they dug a hole for the toilet. He sends his kids to collect water. The mother of this family said she wishes her family and her kids would just die, that that would be a relief.
CHANG: Oh, my God. Well, we spoke earlier about Netanyahu's possible motivations in this war. But what about the leader of Hamas? What does he want?
ESTRIN: Yeah. The question is, does Hamas' leader, Yahya Sinwar, want to actually agree to a cease-fire deal now. You know, he's incommunicado. He's hiding. He's on Israel's kill list. So he is, in many senses, a mystery. Some analysts say that he actually may prefer to wait to see if Iran and Hezbollah actually do attack Israel after a pair of recent assassinations. He may want to see a regional war, and he may want to see more chaos to weaken Israel before he decides what to do with these talks.
But really, Ailsa, the stakes could not be higher. You know, Palestinian civilians killed in recent airstrikes - they could be alive today if there were a cease-fire just days ago. And Israeli hostages are languishing and possibly dying in captivity. And there's a potential of a major attack on Israel that could spin out of control into a regional war. So a lot really is depending on these talks.
CHANG: Yeah. That is NPR's Daniel Estrin. Thank you so much, Daniel.
ESTRIN: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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