ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
Driving around Washington, D.C., yesterday, I saw a woman flying the Venezuelan flag on the back of her scooter. She had made a sign that said, Venezuela is free today. Millions of Venezuelans were voting in national elections where polls showed the opposition party running far ahead, but her optimism was premature. When election results came in, the authoritarian leader Nicolas Maduro was again declared the winner. The U.S. and other international observers have raised serious doubts about the integrity of the election. Maduro denies that there was fraud.
In another part of the program, we'll hear from our reporter in Caracas. Now we're going to ask what this means to the millions of Venezuelans who have left their country. Karina Sainz Borgo is a Venezuelan journalist and novelist who lives in Madrid. Thank you for joining us.
KARINA SAINZ BORGO: Thank you, Ari, for asking me to talk to you about this issue. It's very important. It's very difficult to talk about.
SHAPIRO: So you were not as optimistic as some of the people who I saw celebrating in the streets in Washington, D.C., yesterday. You suspected that Maduro might do something like what he is accused of doing. And yet when you heard the results, what was your reaction?
SAINZ BORGO: One of the things I really thought in the beginning - it was I'm very afraid of a new repressive blow because it's true that he did not recognize the elections, but he may also use the force against people to obligate them to accept that.
SHAPIRO: You mean if people protest in the street, saying, we object and don't believe these results, he might crack down with violence as his government has done in the past.
SAINZ BORGO: I do believe that because he already did that in 2017 and 2018 against students. I don't know if you remember. There was a terrible, terrible, huge wave of repression and violence against people. And that's what makes me feel afraid in this moment.
SHAPIRO: Today, as the results of this election come in and it's sinking in that Maduro has another six years in power, what are your friends and relatives in Venezuela telling you, especially if there's a fear that street protests and objections could be met with violence?
SAINZ BORGO: Well, there's a new feeling of frustration between people. But the most of the people, including people that vote for Maduro and for Chavez as well - they want to leave the country not only because of authoritarianism, which is true, but it's true because of the economic crisis and the economic situation.
SHAPIRO: About a quarter of Venezuela's population has left the country in the last decade or so, as the economy imploded. Millions of Venezuelans live in Latin America, the United States and Europe. Can you tell us about the conversations happening today in chat groups and Facebook pages among Venezuelan expats?
SAINZ BORGO: You know, everyone is feeling - has this feeling of being robbed. It's a very huge frustration. And one of the things - it was very surprising of this election with Maria Corina Machado and Edmundo Gonzalez as candidates. It's people really recovered the feeling of it might be possible to have a solution to this. This is a very important situation, and it's a very huge frustration for people. That's why everyone is expecting to have - to being listened, to have to be seen, to make possible to denounce the fraud elector with elections.
SHAPIRO: Can you tell me how you're reconciling your feelings right now as a citizen of Venezuela, as a journalist, as a novelist, as a commentator? I mean, you have so many different roles. It must be difficult to keep the feelings in separate boxes.
SAINZ BORGO: I think I'm broken, really. I'm broken since too many years ago. Of course, I feel Venezuelan, and I feel part of Venezuela. But it's been so difficult for me to talk about this and try to understand, and I really tried to separate myself of that process. I know it sounds weird, but I had to do this.
SHAPIRO: Am I correct that the last time you visited Venezuela was 2013, more than a decade ago?
SAINZ BORGO: Indeed. Yeah. It was more than a decade ago.
SHAPIRO: As you saw the polls showing that the opposition was ahead, did you ever allow yourself to dream about returning to the country under a different leadership?
SAINZ BORGO: No. I don't want to go back because - I understand it sounds terrible. But, you know, the huge damage of the Venezuelan society - we can't solve that in five years. There is a very deep, deep, deep and strong feeling of disease in the Venezuelan society. I don't feel near that anymore. For me, it's very difficult. I know it sounds terrible. But what I do really think is that people - a lot of people that really wanted to go back. They really need to go back to reconstruct things. I do not feel that, but a lot of people outside really does.
SHAPIRO: Karina Sainz Borgo is a Venezuelan journalist living in Madrid, and she is the author of the novel "It Would Be Night In Caracas." Thank you so much.
SAINZ BORGO: Thank you, Ari. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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