A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
I'm A Martínez in Los Angeles, Calif., where the state is ordering its agencies to start clearing out homeless encampments. Governor Gavin Newsom is also encouraging cities and counties to do the same. The move comes a month after a Supreme Court ruling making it easier to force people to move, even if they have nowhere else to go. NPR's Jennifer Ludden joins us to explain, Jennifer, what exactly does Gavin Newsom's executive order say?
JENNIFER LUDDEN, BYLINE: Well, it calls on state agencies to come up with their own plan to clear camps on state property, similar to what California's Transportation Department already does. It's got a whole protocol for doing this near highways and overpasses. The order basically says agencies should prioritize encampments that pose an imminent danger to, quote, "life, health, safety or infrastructure," and those can be removed immediately. Otherwise, it says, officials have to give 48 hours' notice. Now, the order encourages cities and counties to do this as well. It cannot force them to take action, although it could withhold state money. In a statement, Gavin Newsom said, look, there are simply no more excuses. It's time for everyone to do their part.
MARTÍNEZ: Now, we know that California accounts for nearly a third of the country's homeless population. So are we going to start seeing a massive removal of these encampments? Is that what's about to happen?
LUDDEN: You know, I am not clear how it will play out or how much might actually change. I asked California's state parks agency about this. They have a lot of public land. They said it basically complements their existing policy. I'd say that's true in some big cities and counties. The district attorney for San Diego County says she hopes it will be part of a coordinated strategy. Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass said, look, the solution is not criminalization. It is getting people into housing.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah. Bass is going to have the Olympics in her city in four years, so we'll see if her position on this changes by then. Essentially, what are critics saying about this?
LUDDEN: I spoke with Alex Visotzky. He works on California policy with the National Alliance to End Homelessness. It says it's dismayed by the order. He made two points. He says, first, he does give California credit for devoting billions to homelessness. Governor Newsom cites 24 billion across his administration. But Visotzky says it's not largely permanent funding, and you really need a steady stream of money so programs don't waste their time reapplying for their budget every year. Second, he says, you need a lot more than 48 hours' notice when you clear out an encampment.
ALEX VISOTZKY: That's not nearly enough time to line up the necessary services, to line up the necessary kind of housing and shelter beds that folks need. And so what we're likely going to see is people just being moved around.
LUDDEN: Now, Newsom's executive order does encourage connecting people with shelter and housing, and he has pushed cities to build more, but there's just not nearly enough.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah. And this is a big political issue for not only Gavin Newsom, but for any mayor in a city that has this as a problem. Here's the thing, though. I mean, I live in Los Angeles, Jennifer. So there's so many times where I drive by an encampment that's being cleared out, and a few days later, the encampment is back, and sometimes bigger than before. So is this order really going to do anything?
LUDDEN: You are not wrong, A. And I'll just add, there's economic pressure as well. Businesses are leaving. There's a lot of evidence clearing out encampments alone does not work. A study this week by the RAND Corporation looked at three neighborhoods in LA. It tracked camps that had been cleared, and after just two or three months, the study found that the numbers of people living on the streets were right back up to what they had been before.
MARTÍNEZ: NPR's Jennifer Ludden. Thank you very much.
LUDDEN: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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